Ipod's and the FAA

[jetracer5]

So what is the FAA/FAR's rule on Ipods while flying. I had an interesting discussion today with a captain that said they can't be used at all during flight. He couldn't say if it was a FAR but it got us thinking. I cant think of any FAR's that would limit its use above 10K? Is there any FAR that anybody can think of?

 

[Inconceivable]

1. All other electronic devices used must be approved by the PIC under IFR.

2. If connecting to the a/c intercom, device must be TSO'd.

Too lazy to cite the regs right now

 

[wms]

The captain, as the person responsible for the safety of the flight has the authority to allow or prohibit any activity on the aircraft. FAR 91.21 says that NO electronic device may be operated on board a US registered aircraft except portable voice recorders, razors, pace-makers, hearing aids and any device the AIR CARRIER or PIC determines to not to interfere with nav or comm.

Most airline FOMs state what non-flight related activities are allowed.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Wreckless and careless comes to mind. The reg allows the FAA to prosecute anything that in the opinion of the inspector effects safety.

Many majors will not permit reading materials on the flight deck. Their policy is NO distractions.

Let me put it this way - would you do it on a line check?

Fire bottles armed....

 

[Flyer1015]

When you miss three radio calls in a row, yeah take the Ipod out of your ears... thanks.

 

[Axel]

If you do not have the self-discipline to go without your tunes for a couple hours you should not be trying to do this job. Grow up.

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

What do you do for 8 hours in cruise on your way to Italy etc...? I understand the majors saying no reading materials in the flight deck as a point of liability, but really, what do you do over the Atlantic if you aren't reading or something of the like. I have a hard time believing you can stay alert watching the autopilot fly a great circle route while you make a position report every twenty minutes. At least if you read your mind is doing something to stay alert.

 

[Blucher]

Reading puts me to sleep. Now picture 'books,' that's another story. Them things seem to keep me up just fine.

-Blucher

 

[~~~^~~~]

I think the reading of company publications is allowed FOM, POH, MDM, FCTM, memorize the speed cards....

 

[flythere]

I think you just have to be smart about it. I use an mp3 palyer, plugs right into my headset. 99% of the Capt's I fly with don't even know it's over here!! I keep it just inside my flight bag, the volume is low, I hear ATC just fine along with all the other distracting noise. Once we land, I turn it off unplug it from my headset and turn it upside down.

I think guys get arrogant and too big for their shorts. At my last gig, I was non-reving, strolled on and glanced on the flight deck. Noticed the Capts ear buds drapped across the fire handles and his IPod just sitting on the throttle quadrant. Right there for me and everybody else to see!! Very un-professional.

I think if guys would be a little more discreet and use some common sense, this wouldn't be an issue.

 

[flyf15]

An extremely important part of BOTH pilots duty is to listen to, correctly hear, and respond to radio calls. Even if you're not the pilot on the radios and are just sitting there, how do you know that your other pilot just heard that radio call correctly? How do you verify, when acting upon the ATC instruction, that you're doing the right thing if you can't guarantee both of you heard the correct instruction? All it takes is ONE incorrect interpretation, one incorrectly heard number, etc to get a violation on your record. Pilot deviations are hard enough to avoid when you're doing things right, much more when you've got an Ipod playing into your headset.

As a potential pilot of the other aircraft you're about to have a mid-air with because you have to listen to Green Day while in cruise, I'd like to ask you stop doing this. I'm sure your passengers would appreciate it too...

And for those of you who do it secretly so that the other crew member does not know you're doing it, you can know that for sure if I fly with you and catch you doing it, I'll be making a call to pro standards the second we land. I'm not going to put my career or safety in the jeopardy because of your unprofessionalism.

 

[inthegoo]

Reading puts me to sleep. Now picture 'books,' that's another story. Them things seem to keep me up just fine.

-Blucher

"Keep me up"

That's good!

As for the Ipods, are u kidding me even bringing this issue up? How old are you? 19?

This crap makes me wish CNN would start reading this forum and publicizing (SP?) it.

I should send it to them

 

[flythere]

An extremely important part of BOTH pilots duty is to listen to, correctly hear, and respond to radio calls. Even if you're not the pilot on the radios and are just sitting there, how do you know that your other pilot just heard that radio call correctly? How do you verify, when acting upon the ATC instruction, that you're doing the right thing if you can't guarantee both of you heard the correct instruction? All it takes is ONE incorrect interpretation, one incorrectly heard number, etc to get a violation on your record. Pilot deviations are hard enough to avoid when you're doing things right, much more when you've got an Ipod playing into your headset.

As a potential pilot of the other aircraft you're about to have a mid-air with because you have to listen to Green Day while in cruise, I'd like to ask you stop doing this. I'm sure your passengers would appreciate it too...

And for those of you who do it secretly so that the other crew member does not know you're doing it, you can know that for sure if I fly with you and catch you doing it, I'll be making a call to pro standards the second we land. I'm not going to put my career or safety in the jeopardy because of your unprofessionalism.

You sound really uptight!! Could not imagine spending a whole month with you, wow!!!

 

[MEL'ed]

At my last gig, I was non-reving, strolled on and glanced on the flight deck. Noticed the Capts ear buds drapped across the fire handles and his IPod just sitting on the throttle quadrant. Right there for me and everybody else to see!! Very un-professional.

Listening to music during a turn is not unprofessional. We aren't even paid then! Yes, I know I took this job knowing I only get paid from push back till parking brake set, but we are still responsible if something happens while pax are onboard. Pay us the whole time if you don't want us to do our thing during this time. Heck, after parking on long flights, the flight crew gets off once the ground power is hooked up and leaves the cabin crew to disembark. It isn't a safety issue then. I enjoy flying with a CA that has the speaker adapter for the mp3 player that plays music during the turn. During flight, I won't comment. Do what you want, but don't be a bastard if the other pilot listens to music and can still answer the radio.

 

[IronCityBlue]

"Keep me up"

That's good!

As for the Ipods, are u kidding me even bringing this issue up? How old are you? 19?

This crap makes me wish CNN would start reading this forum and publicizing (SP?) it.

I should send it to them

She take my money when I'm in need
Yea she's a triflin' friend indeed
Oh she's a gold digger way over town
That digs on me

Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger
But she ain't messin' wit no broke - bro
Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger
But she ain't messin' wit no broke - bro
Get down girl go ahead get down
Get down girl go ahead get down
Get down girl go ahead get down
Get down girl go ahead

Cutie the bomb
Met her at a beauty salon
With a baby Louis Vuitton
Under her underarm
She said I can tell you rock
I can tell by your charm
Far as girls you got a flock
I can tell by ya charm and ya arm
but I'm lookin' for the one, have you seen her
My psychic told me she have a *** like Serena
Trina, Jennifer Lopez, four kids
And I gotta take all they bad *** to showbiz
Ok get ya kids but then they got their friends
I pulled up in the Benz, they all got up in
We all went to Den' and then I had to pay
If you messin' with this girl then you better be paid
You know why
It take too much to touch her
From what I heard she got a baby by Buster
My best friend say she use to mess with
I don't care what none of y'all say I still love her

Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger
But she ain't messin' wit no broke - bro
Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger
But she ain't messin' wit no broke - bro
Get down girl go ahead get down
Get down girl go ahead get down
Get down girl go ahead get down
Get down girl go ahead

18 years, 18 years
She got one of your kids got you for 18 years
I know somebody payin' child support for one of his kids
His baby momma's car and crib is bigger than his
You will see him on T.V. any given Sunday
Win the Superbowl and drive off in a Hyundai
She was supposed to buy ya shorty Tyco with ya money
She went to the doctor got lipo with ya money
She walkin around lookin' like Michael with ya money
Should of got that insured got Geico for ya money
If you ain't no punk holla 'We Want Prenup'
It's something that you need to have
'Cause when she leave yo she gone leave with half
18 years, 18 years
And on her 18th birthday he found out it wasn't his

Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger
But she ain't messin' wit no broke - bro
Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger
But she ain't messin' wit no broke - bro
Get down girl go ahead get down
Get down girl go ahead get down
Get down girl go ahead get down
Get down girl go ahead

Now I ain't sayin you a gold digger you got needs
You don't want ya dude to smoke but he can't buy weed
You go out to eat and he can't pay yall can't leave
There's dishes in the back, he gotta roll up his sleeves
But while y'all washin' watch him
He gone make it into a Benz out of that Datsun
He got that ambition baby look in his eyes
This week he moppin' floors next week it's the fries
So, stick by his side
I know his dude's ballin' but yea that's nice
And they gone keep callin'and tryin'
But you stay right girl
But when you get on he leave yo *** for a white girl

Get down girl go ahead get down
Get down girl go ahead get down


Get down girl go ahead get down
Get down girl go ahead get down



Um, what? Were you saying something?:laugh:

 

[Axel]

I think you just have to be smart about it. I use an mp3 palyer, plugs right into my headset. 99% of the Capt's I fly with don't even know it's over here...!!

...Very un-professional.

I think if guys would be a little more discreet and use some common sense, this wouldn't be an issue.

My Irony-o-Meter is off the scale

 

[captainv]

I remember reading Tom Block's column in flying years ago when he was flying heavies across the pond for USAirways. As I recall, he would fire up whatever kind of music player they had then (pre-iPod to be sure) and hang some miniature speakers in the cockpit so he could listen to his favorite opera. I believe he solicited input from the FO as to his preferred choice of opera, but if the FO didn't like opera, well, Tom was the captain and that was that.

He'd also bring a novel/paperback per trip.
And I'm pretty sure he was older than 19.

When Len Morgan passed, I remember an anecdote his wife wrote. She was in the jumpseat on the 747 going to the Phillipines or some other far-flung pacific destination. Curious where they were, she leaned forward to ask Len, who was fast asleep. Same with the FO. Apparently one of them would wake up every now and then, adjust the heading bug, and go back to sleep.

 

[Flyer1015]

She take my money when I'm in need
Yea she's a triflin' friend indeed
Oh she's a gold digger way over town
That digs on me

Now I ...



Um, what? Were you saying something?:laugh:

Carlos Mencia's better.

"I admit I like Gold Digger,
but Kanye West is a crazy n*gga.

18 years, 18 years?!
He grew up in the suburbs for 18 yrs!

He talk about how he struggled in his ghetto years,
but his mommy and his daddys house is bigger than his!"


ah man, I'll have to pull up the lyrics.

But it was H-I-L-A-R-I-O-U-S !!!!!!

 

[Ifly4money]

So what is the FAA/FAR's rule on Ipods while flying. I had an interesting discussion today with a captain that said they can't be used at all during flight. He couldn't say if it was a FAR but it got us thinking. I cant think of any FAR's that would limit its use above 10K? Is there any FAR that anybody can think of?

If it says in your version of the Ops manual then that is the FAR reference you need. The FAA signs off on every company manual and that makes it a reg.

 

[Flyer1015]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flythere
I think you just have to be smart about it. I use an mp3 palyer, plugs right into my headset. 99% of the Capt's I fly with don't even know it's over here...!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by flythere
...Very un-professional.

I think if guys would be a little more discreet and use some common sense, this wouldn't be an issue.

Wow. Just, wow.

 

[flyf15]

You sound really uptight!! Could not imagine spending a whole month with you, wow!!!

I don't think I can imagine spending a whole month with you either.... enjoy getting violated, glad I won't be in the cockpit with you when it happens.

 

[kngarthur]

So what is the FAA/FAR's rule on Ipods while flying. I had an interesting discussion today with a captain that said they can't be used at all during flight. He couldn't say if it was a FAR but it got us thinking. I cant think of any FAR's that would limit its use above 10K? Is there any FAR that anybody can think of?

Ridiculous! What's next hair gel?

 

[Midnight Flyer]

I think the reading of company publications is allowed FOM, POH, MDM, FCTM, memorize the speed cards....

My airline has this same stupid policy. No reading except if it's a company publication.
I just don't think they want us to read anything remotely entertaining. The BS about not wanting us "distracted" is silly. Reading the FOM can cause a pilot to be just as distracted as reading a USA Today.
They just don't want us to be entertained.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I remember reading Tom Block's column in flying years ago when he was flying heavies across the pond for USAirways. As I recall, he would fire up whatever kind of music player they had then (pre-iPod to be sure) and hang some miniature speakers in the cockpit so he could listen to his favorite opera. I believe he solicited input from the FO as to his preferred choice of opera, but if the FO didn't like opera, well, Tom was the captain and that was that.

He'd also bring a novel/paperback per trip.
And I'm pretty sure he was older than 19.

When Len Morgan passed, I remember an anecdote his wife wrote. She was in the jumpseat on the 747 going to the Phillipines or some other far-flung pacific destination. Curious where they were, she leaned forward to ask Len, who was fast asleep. Same with the FO. Apparently one of them would wake up every now and then, adjust the heading bug, and go back to sleep.

In class we were told about a near miss (within 1 mile) involving two wide bodies. British Airways took evasive action to avoid hitting a US carrier's aircraft. The US crew had their charts out (blocking the sun) and reading materials in use and apparently were unaware of the near collision until contacted by Company. The aircraft together had somewhere north of 700 souls on board.

As for the IPOD, don't assume the other pilot can hear. Most of us that got our time flying general aviation aircraft and Garrett powered turboprops can not hear very well at all. At my carrier we have several pilots who are partly deaf, or deaf in one ear and some out flying with an exemption on their medicals.

It is not a brief item, so how would you know?

When my FO's pulled out PED's in flight I would humbly tell them I needed help to avoid missing calls and clearances and politely ask that they put them away, particularly when we were climbing, or descending. In cruise, I probably would not say anything, but oddly, FO's tended to pull these devices out on the ground and in the descent. That was when I needed the other crewmember the most.

 

[Flyer1015]

or deaf in one ear out flying with an exemption on their medicals.

Even if you are completely deaf in one ear, so as long as you can hear an average conversational voice from six fee away w/ back turned to examiner, then you pass the hearing test portion. That's one of the three listed methods to determine if you are ok in terms of hearing for the FAA 1st class medicals.

I know a pilot with one deaf ear (from birth, completely deaf ear), and yet he has a normal medical with no exemptions/restrictions/limitations.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Sec. 91.13

Careless or reckless operation.

(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

-----
Sec. 121.535

Responsibility for operational control: Flag operations.

(a) Each certificate holder conducting flag operations is responsible for operational control.
(d) Each pilot in command of an aircraft is, during flight time, in command of the aircraft and crew and is responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers, cargo, and airplane.
(e) Each pilot in command has full control and authority in the operation of the aircraft, without limitation, over other crewmembers and their duties during flight time, whether or not he holds valid certificates authorizing him to perform the duties of those crewmembers.
(f) No pilot may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger life or property.

The FAA does not define the terms wreckless, or careless. They will make up the definition to fit the situation. If there is an incident and somehow it is learned that a PED was on, the music will make the investigation more interesting than if everything was done by the book. Once an aircraft land with the parking brake set and there was music on the CVR. Obviously that was interesting.

As someone else pointed out, Company Ops Specs do have the same effect as FAR's. Some airlines have already prohibited these things and I imagine the other airlines will get on board since this is a monkey see, monkey do, business anyway.

 

[AC560]

91.21(c)
In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.

 

[HelloNewman]

Simple solution only read or use the ipod when there is no FAA person, check airmen, or even a regular guy in the jumpseat. What they don't know can't hurt them.

Even at my new job people read, listen to ipod/adf etc. For god sakes on a 4hr + flight you need something to stimulate your mind. Sitting and staring at the autopilot listening to ATC is mind numbing at best. It is safer to have an alert pilot who is reading than one that is day dreaming and spaced out.

 

[Rerouted]

CFI 121.33 Reads: I-Pods may not be used during any portion of flight unless accompanied by: a) Spikey Hair; b) Suitable Backpack. There you have it, the FAA has spoken.

 

[Rip Vanwinkle]

I can't think of any freight dogs I know who DON'T have at lest an ipod on during all phases of flight. And they're the ONLY PILOT! With NO autopilot! No wonder they're falling from the sky faster than a Riddle Ace's ego!

Seriously, if you can't adjust the volume on an mp3 player such that you can hear the high-tech crystal clear radios in the whisper-quiet cabin of your barbie jet, maybe you need to find a job with fewer buttons and knobs.