International layovers

[777forever]

Yes, San Juan, St Thomas, Santo Domingo, Santiago (DR), Aruba, St Lucia, Barbados, Montego Bay, Greneda, and Port of Spain. There is also a junior trip to Georgetown, Guyana from JFK, and other South America layovers. The MD88 has layovers in Cancun and turns to Punta Cana, Roatan, Grand Cayman, Nassau, St Croix, and Belize City. The 737 and A320 have several turns to Central America, and also very senior turns to places like St Kitts that have double crews since the turn is over 8 hours round trip. So, DH one way down or back, and get 9 hours pay in one day. Not bad, and very senior. One senior 737 FO I talked to said he does those on the weekend, and during the week he is a math teacher, which he really enjoys.


Most INTL destinations at DL have nice hotels and a long layover. If you are on the 75/76 fleet, you can see Europe, South America, and Asia. It's called variety, something Wave has never really seen. He's not used to one leg a day to a nice layover and meal. And, get this, if INTL flying turns out to be tough for you, you can actually bid back to domestic only, or fly a fleet that offers BOTH. Amazing! Wave and Red can have beers in Lubbutocks and dream of variety, and someday maybe Hawaii if they ever get around to it. In the meantime, hopefully they finally have mastered both VNAV and auto throttles.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Awesome, thanks for the info. The Santiago and Santo Domingo layovers on the 737?

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[Green]

At Emirates most layovers are in the 24-36 hour range. Usually the ULR destinations (14hours+) have a 48 hour layover. It can be tough maintaing a regular sleep pattern with such a diverse route network. Flights vary from 45 minutes to 1545. The key to not aging 20 years overnight is the ability to sleep in the bunk on ULR ops. Some guys can't seem to do it.

 

[SWA Bubba]

There you go, everyone that doesn't agree with you is stupid and naive. Must be nice to be the only one who knows what is right or wrong.

It's all in the perspective. SWA pilots agreeing to sit reserve while on layover would affect me and my pilot group a lot more than Delta's new scope clause. And where I believe DALPA successfully reduced/limited the number of RJs that can fly for Delta, SWAPA might allow the weaken of work rules that international airlines have fought for years to achieve and maintain.

You pontificate about these great moral stands pilots should make for the good of the profession yet is seems to me you've never actually done it yourself.

Well, I'm not going to call you stupid or naive, but in this case you ARE uninformed on what is planned and probably also as to how we do things at Southwest. Again, Jim, we are NOT agreeing to sit reserve on a layover, so you can stop worrying about how it will affect you. We have proposed (not finalized yet) adding a duty period to a Hawaii trip that happens to be a reserve day. It's not a day we would already be there getting paid to sit on the beach anyway; it's a day that would not be part of the pairing if not for the company wanting a guy there to cover a possible sick call. Put a different way, it would either be a two-day (go there and come back the next day), OR turn it into a three day (go there, have a reserve day, and then return on the third day). Do you really not see the difference? That's a real question, Jim. We're not screwing over a layover; that 48 hours sitting in Hawaii wouldn't exist on a Southwest pairing otherwise.

You know, there's a lot of things that Waveflyer and I do not agree about; primarily because he's more liberal than I am (or put another way, I'm more conservative about some things than he is). However, this is one thing we're in complete agreement about. And I have to give him props for not being what the caricature of a liberal is in this case: a guy who wants to get paid for nothing. We both know that Southwest provides the best kind of job security by being efficient and not wasting money, and we all do our part to keep it that way. That's why we always have made a profit, and we never have had a furlough. We work fewer days per month to log the same hours as other carriers. Our rigs ensure that. That's a good thing.

Other airlines have much longer international layovers (and Hawaii too, I suppose), and perhaps guys like that. However, they don't have our rigs, and aren't getting paid during those layovers as much as we would be. Our company won't waste that money. If we didn't have our rigs, and the company didn't care if we sat around for 48 hours (just drawing perdiem), then yeah, we'd have some cake layovers in Hawaii too, and we wouldn't allow this embedded reserve thing. But on the other hand, in that case, what would stop the company from having us do a 48-hour layover in some place you don't want to be, like the General's favorite small Texas college town? I think I speak for the majority of Southwest pilots who prefer to work 12 days per month to bank the same hours as another company's narrow-body pilot who has to work 15 or more days per month.

So you really can't say we're "setting a bad example" for the rest of the industry here. Hell, we have these industry-leading rigs that are "an example" that no one else seems to follow. If you just want to use this as a random nonsense thing to slam Southwest on, like General Lee, than knock yourself out. (Hell, he makes his Flight Info name equating having two crews out of a thousand per night laying over in Lubbock, with being the worst job in the world. He's kind of funny that way.) On the other hand, if you want a legitimate argument, then you'll have to go somewhere else.

Bubba

 

[fr8doggie]

What exactly is the SWA trip rig? FDX is, I believe 3.75:1 or 6.4 CH/24hrs. An 80hr layover in BQN would pay about 25.6hrs. Assuming 5.5hrs of duty on each end of layover (MEM-BQN-MEM)

Regards,
Fr8doggie

 

[General Lee]

Awesome, thanks for the info. The Santiago and Santo Domingo layovers on the 737?

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

From JFK.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Patriot328]

I recently did a BOM trip. About 31hrs of block/pay with about 58hrs total time away from base. The layover is 26hrs, which is 27hrs too long.

 

[SWA Bubba]

What exactly is the SWA trip rig? FDX is, I believe 3.75:1 or 6.4 CH/24hrs. An 80hr layover in BQN would pay about 25.6hrs. Assuming 5.5hrs of duty on each end of layover (MEM-BQN-MEM)

Regards,
Fr8doggie

First, each day pays the greater of what's flown, or 5.0tfp, or .74 tfp for each hour of duty during that day.
Then, each pairing must pay at least 6.5 tfp average per day (i.e. a 3-day trip must pay at least 19.5)
Finally, each pairing also must pay at least 1 tfp for every 3 hours away from base inclusive.
Deadheads pay the same as actual flying.

Obviously the point is to not have us sit around on a layover or at an airport for any length of time when we're at work. More than an hour or two total ground time during any day, and the .74 kicks in (or if you're delayed or weathered in somewhere, for that matter). Not scheduled to fly much during your pairing? At least 5.0 on any given day and an average of 6.5 per day over the pairing. Got a 4 day with long layovers (>16 hours or so)? You'll probably see the time-away-from-base rig kick in. These rigs are all not so much to get extra money from the company for nothing, but rather to incentivize the scheduling system to be more efficient. And they are efficient for the most part; just the way we like it. Spend less time away from home to bank the hours you need.

Bubba

 

[say again]

I recently did a BOM trip... The layover is 26hrs, which is 27hrs too long.

SO I've heard!! I have a friend that travels there for her job, and she F$#KING HATES it. She has to stay on average of 10 days. Certainly dont envy her, or anyone that has to spend time there.

 

[filejw]

SO I've heard!! I have a friend that travels there for her job, and she F$#KING HATES it. She has to stay on average of 10 days. Certainly dont envy her, or anyone that has to spend time there.

Hey if you guys are going to do international stuff you need to be more open minded. Did BOM for years on DC 10 and had lots of fun and learned a lot too. Folks are generally poor but very nice.The history and site seeing go on for ever in India.

 

[dalad]

Yes, San Juan, St Thomas, Santo Domingo, Santiago (DR), Aruba, St Lucia, Barbados, Montego Bay, Greneda, and Port of Spain. There is also a junior trip to Georgetown, Guyana from JFK, and other South America layovers. The MD88 has layovers in Cancun and turns to Punta Cana, Roatan, Grand Cayman, Nassau, St Croix, and Belize City. The 737 and A320 have several turns to Central America, and also very senior turns to places like St Kitts that have double crews since the turn is over 8 hours round trip. So, DH one way down or back, and get 9 hours pay in one day. Not bad, and very senior. One senior 737 FO I talked to said he does those on the weekend, and during the week he is a math teacher, which he really enjoys.


Most INTL destinations at DL have nice hotels and a long layover. If you are on the 75/76 fleet, you can see Europe, South America, and Asia. It's called variety, something Wave has never really seen. He's not used to one leg a day to a nice layover and meal. And, get this, if INTL flying turns out to be tough for you, you can actually bid back to domestic only, or fly a fleet that offers BOTH. Amazing! Wave and Red can have beers in Lubbutocks and dream of variety, and someday maybe Hawaii if they ever get around to it. In the meantime, hopefully they finally have mastered both VNAV and auto throttles.



Bye Bye---General Lee

We have'nt flown to Port of Spain in 2 years. The hotels in Europe have gotten worse, with lots of NH's and Novotels replacing Marriots and Sheratons-think BRU and MXP. There is that lovely Ramada in MXP. Ooh, don't leave out the lovely Novotel Eiffel Tower either. How about the Ambassatori in VCE? Don't let GL fool ya, the international layover hotels are steadily getting worse, in fact he hasn't flown international in a couple of years. He must have gone back to DCI to get those LBB layovers.