Interesting Thread:

[Prop2Jet]

A friend emailed this to me and I thought it was interesting, although we all signed up for it and know this it is still interesting:

I'm sure all my wingmen (and women) will agree. Even if I am preaching to the choir, I know you're smellin what I'm shovelin!! =) Livin the dream, remember??

Pilot and Flight Attendant pay

~When you see a Pilot or flight attendant, they're not getting paid.

~When you see a pilot or flight attendant going through the same security you go through, theyr'e not being paid.

~When you see a pilot or flight attendant walking in the terminal, theyr'e not being paid.

~When you see a pilot or flight attendant at the gate pulling up paper work, planning the flight, and conferring with the agent, theyr'e not being paid.

~When you see a pilot walking around the aircraft doing a preflight inspection, he's not being paid.

~When you board the aircraft and look in the cockpit and see the
pilots setting up the aircraft, or the flight attendants getting the galley and aircraft ready, they're not getting paid.

~When you land safely at your destination and walk off the aircraft and see the pilots and flight attendants shutting down the aircraft, they're not being paid.

~When you see a pilot and flight attendants waiting for a ride to a hotel for the night, theyr'e not being paid.

~The only time the pilot of your aircraft is getting paid is when
you DON"T see him...when he's locked behind the cockpit door as you push back from the gate. Every thing else he does until this point is for free, for no wages. Nothing! Same for the flight attendant's, they only get paid when the aircraft is in the air!

~The average airline pilot and flight attendant is at work for 12- 14 hours per day, yet gets paid for less than 6 - 7 hours.

~The average airline pilot and flight attendant member is away from home, at work, for 70+ hours a week, yet gets paid for only 15 to 18 hours per weeks work.

~Most pilots and flight attendant schedules have them working 15 days or more a month...that means they are not at home half the month.

~Holidays, weekends, birthdays, anniversaries, summer vacations...not at home.

~A majority of pilots have 4-year college degrees, or more. Then
they begin training as pilots.

~A large majority of Pilots have spent 8 years or more flying in the military, risking their lives and protecting your freedom for wages most of you wouldn't accept in the civilian world.

~Civilian trained pilots have spent $50,000 or more to acquire the
training that qualifies them for a Regional Airline job, which pays
a wage less than the poverty level in most western countries.

~Most pilots do not attain the required experience level to be hired by a major airline until they are well passed the age of 30.

~The average age of a new hire airline pilot is 32.

~Airline pilots and flight attendants are subject to random drug and alcohol testing, any time they are at work. Fail it and they lose their job.

~Airline pilots and flight attendants are required to undergo rigorous re-training and certification every 6 to 9 months, at which time they could fail and lose their jobs, licenses and livelihood.

~Airline pilots and flight attendants are required to submit to random government "Line checks" during which their license could be revoked and livelihood destroyed.

~Airline pilots and flight attendants are exposed to radiation levels far exceeding the normal safe radiation limits mandated by the FDA.

~Airline pilots are required to submit to a government medical
examination every 6 months (Captains) and 12 months as First
Officers and flight crew members. Year after year. Fail that, and their career is over.

~How many of you go to work where people try to kill you?
~How many of you have had your office turned into a cruise missile?
~How many of you work behind a bullet proof door?
~How many of you are responsible for the lives of 200- 300 people, with any small mistake in your performance resulting in the death of your customers (and yourselves), and the financial destruction of your company?
~How many of your jobs require you to fight your way through
thunderstorms, rain, snow, ice and turbulence, day and night, year after year? No mistakes allowed? The excuse " I had a bad day at work" never accepted?
~Many pilots volunteer (on their own time and own dime) to be
trained as Federal Flight Deck Officers, and carry weapons to defend their aircraft, crew and passengers. They maintain their proficiency and qualifications twice a year on their own time and money.
~How many of you go to work where you are searched, patted down and your personal items scrutinized by TSA strangers, even though you can kill everyone in your place of work with your two bare hands?

~Airline pilot and Flight attendant pay scales and hours worked are usually posted by absurdly overcompensated Airline Exec's who are waging a PR campaign against their Pilot and Flight Attendant Unions and trying to justify their own greedy
bonus's and draconian wage and pension cuts.

~Cheap ass airline passengers just love this ******************** since they don't care if their airplane is flown by the lowest denominator, as long as they can fly for next to nothing. Of course, if they don't get to their destination, their next of kin can sue...

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Preach Preacha!

Maybe we should send this to everyone we know via e-mail or something...

 

[Occam's Razor]

Before we mount our crosses in execution of our stoic martyrdom, maybe we ought to disclose the whole story:

~When you see a Pilot or flight attendant, they're not getting paid.

Unless they are in a Minimum/Average Day situation, Duty Period Credit, Trip Hour Credit, or they are a Management pilot on salary flying for currency, or an Instructor or Reserve pilot on a monthly guarantee. In those cases, they may actually receive more pay (on a per hour basis) then they work for the month.

~When you see a pilot or flight attendant going through the same security you go through, theyr'e not being paid.

ibid

~When you see a pilot or flight attendant walking in the terminal, theyr'e not being paid.

ibid

~When you see a pilot or flight attendant at the gate pulling up paper work, planning the flight, and conferring with the agent, theyr'e not being paid.

ibid

~When you see a pilot walking around the aircraft doing a preflight inspection, he's not being paid.

ibid

~When you board the aircraft and look in the cockpit and see the
pilots setting up the aircraft, or the flight attendants getting the galley and aircraft ready, they're not getting paid.

...but as you make your way to your cramped seat in the back muttering to yourself that you actually had to pay for the privilege as an escape from your thrilling job of selling aluminum-siding for Sears, while those steely-eyed sky gods get paid to do something you used to dream about when you were kid...you hope that your seat-mate is a nubile hottie.

She won't be. It'll be some other 9-to-5 cubicle denizen who reviews quarterly reports for Acme Widgets, has persistent allergies, and needs 5-minutes to explain to anybody who might care exactly what he does for a living.

~When you land safely at your destination and walk off the aircraft and see the pilots and flight attendants shutting down the aircraft, they're not being paid.

...but they just finished getting paid for holding your boring pathetic life in their powerful hands as they defied gravity and carried you 6 miles above the surface of a planet crawling with other terrestrial life-forms such as you.

~When you see a pilot and flight attendants waiting for a ride to a hotel for the night, theyr'e not being paid.

...they are, however, going to spend the night in the same type of hotel you would have to pay for.

~The only time the pilot of your aircraft is getting paid is when
you DON"T see him...when he's locked behind the cockpit door as you push back from the gate. Every thing else he does until this point is for free, for no wages. Nothing! Same for the flight attendant's, they only get paid when the aircraft is in the air!

...with the seat back, laughing and joking with his F/O while pretty girls [Note: NWA n/a] bring him beverages. Just like your job, except nobody brings you squat, with the possible exception of more work or notification that your job is being outsourced to India.

~The average airline pilot and flight attendant is at work for 12- 14 hours per day, yet gets paid for less than 6 - 7 hours.

...which doesn't include their commute, which allows them to live near extended family, or someplace warm...while you had to relocate to West Nowhere, Nebraska when your company was bought by the Chinese. Now you face a hellish 45-minute drive through blizzards or Level 5 thunderstorms for the thrill of listening to that twerp-of-a-boss lecture you about "teamwork" and "commitment to excellence".

~The average airline pilot and flight attendant member is away from home, at work, for 70+ hours a week, yet gets paid for only 15 to 18 hours per weeks work.

Contemplate that as you try to tune-out your wife's whining about the kids...or the "Check Engine" light on her 11-year old Cheerio-infested, puke-smelling, minivan.

~Most pilots and flight attendant schedules have them working 15 days or more a month...that means they are not at home half the month.

And some work less. Just like when you started out in the stock room working like a slave. Now youir in a cushy cubicle...only 40-feet from a window! Movin' UP, dude!

~Holidays, weekends, birthdays, anniversaries, summer vacations...not at home.

Other times, they're the only dad home mid-week, while you're sneaking glimpses of porn sites on your company computer.

~A majority of pilots have 4-year college degrees, or more. Then
they begin training as pilots.

English degrees, psych degrees, art degrees...

~A large majority of Pilots have spent 8 years or more flying in the military, risking their lives and protecting your freedom for wages most of you wouldn't accept in the civilian world.

...flying supersonic, upside-down, gunning the likes of Bavarian Chef...and getting paid to do it. [Note: Night traps n/a]

~Civilian trained pilots have spent $50,000 or more to acquire the
training that qualifies them for a Regional Airline job, which pays
a wage less than the poverty level in most western countries.

See also "PFT".

~Most pilots do not attain the required experience level to be hired by a major airline until they are well passed the age of 30.

And sadly, some never do. Good thing your career-path at Cubicle World is assured!

~The average age of a new hire airline pilot is 32.

You, on the other hand, might not make it to 32. That open window with it's inviting 6-story drop is looking sweeter every day, especially those days when they pile another heap of mundane paper-shuffling onto your already-teetering IN box! "Ahhh...blessed rest. To be...or not to be"

~Airline pilots and flight attendants are subject to random drug and alcohol testing, any time they are at work. Fail it and they lose their job.

Apparently some people don't like it when their compliance with the law is questioned.

~Airline pilots and flight attendants are required to undergo rigorous re-training and certification every 6 to 9 months, at which time they could fail and lose their jobs, licenses and livelihood.


...which kinda makes the whole thing seem cooler to you, especially when you recall that mind-numbing seminar you went to in Kansas City for ISO 9000! Please kill me!


~Airline pilots and flight attendants are required to submit to random government "Line checks" during which their license could be revoked and livelihood destroyed.


These checks tend to terrify the weak sisters who have every reason to be afraid. For the rest, they are much easier than the performance review you get every year from Mr. TryNotToNoticeTheLameHairpiece.


~Airline pilots and flight attendants are exposed to radiation levels far exceeding the normal safe radiation limits mandated by the FDA.


Which...if they live to be 200, might be a factor.

~Airline pilots are required to submit to a government medical
examination every 6 months (Captains) and 12 months as First
Officers and flight crew members. Year after year. Fail that, and their career is over.

"government"? Most of them visit the same "walk in and pass" AME they've been seeing for 20-years.

~How many of you go to work where people try to kill you?
~How many of you have had your office turned into a cruise missile?
~How many of you work behind a bullet proof door?
~How many of you are responsible for the lives of 200- 300 people, with any small mistake in your performance resulting in the death of your customers (and yourselves), and the financial destruction of your company?
~How many of you go to work where you are searched, patted down and your personal items scrutinized by TSA strangers, even though you can kill everyone in your place of work with your two bare hands?

See how boring and pathetic YOUR life is? How many of you have 2,000 eagar knuckleheads going through dedicated training programs right this minute...salivating for the chance to take your dead-end job?

~Airline pilot and Flight attendant pay scales and hours worked are usually posted by absurdly overcompensated Airline Exec's who are waging a PR campaign against their Pilot and Flight Attendant Unions and trying to justify their own greedy
bonus's and draconian wage and pension cuts.

See also "Acme Widgets Annual Report" (check out how much YOUR CEO is pulling down!)

 

[Tarzan]

Curse you Occam! How dare you add sensible qoutes like this!

 

[ArcticFlier]

Misses the point of the thing entirely................but that's not surprising.......every time your contract is up for renegotiation, your management throws out your hourly rate to the media, or the media finds it on the "Al Gore invented" internet. Do they mention the above? Nope.


Just a little balance...........................

 

[Occam's Razor]

Misses the point of the thing entirely...

Au contrare!

The "point" of the Pilot Lamentations is "we have it tougher than people think!"

Boo Frickin' Hoo!

You think Mr.& Mrs. America care? They have aspects of their jobs that suck too. Everybody has a perspective on their career that they view as harsh or unfair. What the heck makes us so special that we have to whine about it?

It doesn't matter how easy/difficult, fun/stressful, fulfilling/frustrating our occupation is viewed by "outsiders". We are not going to get their sympathy or increase their willingness to make sure we get more out of it by pointing out things that make us "special".

Got that?

This is an exclusive fraternity. We do something that everybody already understands to be demanding, stressful, and unforgiving of mistakes.

Go stand on a streetcorner in your pilot uniform and read the Pilot Lamentations to anyone who'll listen. See how that goes.

Or better yet, tell your shrink.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Au contrare!

The "point" of the Pilot Lamentations is "we have it tougher than people think!"

Boo Frickin' Hoo!

You think Mr.& Mrs. America care? They have aspects of their jobs that suck too. Everybody has a perspective on their career that they view as harsh or unfair. What the heck makes us so special that we have to whine about it?

It doesn't matter how easy/difficult, fun/stressful, fulfilling/frustrating our occupation is viewed by "outsiders". We are not going to get their sympathy or increase their willingness to make sure we get more out of it by pointing out things that make us "special".

Got that?

This is an exclusive fraternity. We do something that everybody already understands to be demanding, stressful, and unforgiving of mistakes.

Go stand on a streetcorner in your pilot uniform and read the Pilot Lamentations to anyone who'll listen. See how that goes.

Or better yet, tell your shrink.

well said

 

[urflyingme?!]

While I agree with some of the things this cliche email has to say, I must agree, it womps hard.

What we need is a "We're so much better than you that we deserve more money" chain letter.

Let's start, and make it last:
When you see a pilot in the terminal he's minutes away from saving your life.
When you see a pilot in the terminal he's probably hung over from partying so hard.
When you see a pilot in a plane he's probably checking out your girlfriend(it could even be a two way street)
When you see a young pilot he's probably been called sir about 5 times that day by people older than him.

 

[CopilotDoug]

All good points, Prop2Jet.
I don't know what it is about Occam...maybe I don't like the name, but you sound like a limp wristed tool, buddy.
Other than that, good post.

 

[Metro752]

If you pronounced Occam properly, it wouldn't really sound limp-wristed.

 

[CopilotDoug]

what can I say? English was my weak spot.
Occam sounds like some sort of small, green vegetable to me.
After limp wristed tool, of course.

 

[Occam's Razor]

what can I say? English was my weak spot.
Occam sounds like some sort of small, green vegetable to me.
After limp wristed tool, of course.

Yet if I changed my s/n to "Michael Bolton" you'd be humpin' my leg right now...

 

[TAWS]

Occam,

You entertaining bastard!!

Your take on life is refreshing, especially after the crap you guys took last year!

 

[Occam's Razor]

NWA doesn't pay me enough to be unhappy.

If they doubled my pay and gave me twice the time off...then I could be a grumpy, miserable martyr. But if I'm gonna spend this must time at work for this kind of $$, I'm gonna be happy and enjoy every single piece of it I can!

I have too many friends in other careers that share their pitiful day-to-day routines with me. The other man's grass just might be greener...but everyman's grass ain't. Using the statistical value of those nouns...I've got it pretty good.

 

[bvt1151]

Occam,

How dare you interject reality into our lives!?!? Nobody anywhere has it worse than pilots, and I'm appalled those little brats in the sweatshops have the gaul to complain after what we go through.

I mean, not getting paid while waiting for the hotel van? Sweatshop kids don't have to worry about that, now, do they?

Brats.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

Occam ... dead on target. Many thanks for the reality check.

Bob

 

[XPOO]

When you see a pilot taking you back to the gate because the weather at the destination airport has cancelled the flight, he just got paid for not completing his job.

How many time have you sat in your cubicle and Lundberg comes to you and says, "Well, looks like you wont have to worry about the Anderson account anymore, but here's the bonus we were going to pay you anyways. Why don't you just go sit around for a few hours and do nothing...mmmkay?"

 

[CopilotDoug]

Yet if I changed my s/n to "Michael Bolton" you'd be humpin' my leg right now...

You're d*mn right I would. But I'd have to get in line behind BVT and BobbyBiplane and wait til they finish.

When I read your banal viewpoints...I had to convince myself your intentions were good, and that's what counts. You get a Gold Star today....my friend. In the mean time, I'll go take a few deep breaths and chant Serenity Now!
It really does work, and that's a good thing!

 

[Occam's Razor]

When I read your banal viewpoints...I had to convince myself your intentions were good, and that's what counts.

Thank you. I am irreversibly a pilot, and absolutely dialed-in on the elements of our profession that might be unknown or unappreciated by non-pilots. I'm also aware of the aspects of our profession that are rewarding and fulfilling. I try to keep a balance between the frustrating parts...and the cool parts. I'm a glass-half-full pilot.

You get a Gold Star today....my friend.

Accepted with aplomb.

In the mean time, I'll go take a few deep breaths and chant Serenity Now! It really does work, and that's a good thing!

Amen, Brother!

When I get the "My Job Sucks" blues, I call my neighbor (the heart catheter salesman), or my college roommate (the winery plant engineer). They bring me back to reality quickly.

 

[EWRJ0225]

we all get a little frustrated at times, but i try to think of how much worse it could be.

You could be shoveling coal in a mine somewhere, where every 6 months, a mine collapses and everyone and their brother is watching on the news thanking themselves that its not them in that mine. But forget the fact that its those miners that a bringing us a power source that powers the damn TV they are watching anyways.

Or you could be a blue collar laborer, whos only solice every day is the first cup of coffee at 5 AM, and the one and only beer consumed around 6 right after work before he goes to sleep to get over and do it again.

You could be a school janitor, walking around pushing a broom and cleaning up 5th grade puke.

You could be a lawyer, spending 12 hours a day at the office, then 4 more hours at home just to figure out how you can suck all the blood out of the deepest pockets, or how to set a known guilty man free, yeah thats honorable work.

Or you could be a dentist, walk over to a chair, put someone into pain, give them a bill and then do it again for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

You could be a nascar driver, but then you spend 150 days away from home, pay based on performance, hated by most, loved by a few.

You could be a limo driver, but might as well put a sign on your forehead that says "i'm somebodys professional bored bitch",

You could work at the sewage plant, waist deep in waste all day cleaning the water that goes back out to wash our clothes, cars, lawns, and fills up our swimming pools.

You could be a pop star, but you limited success for 12-18 months will end you up in rehab, on the cover of every "celebrity bible", shaving your head, and having your kids taken away because your personal life and bad decisions are public entertainment.

You could work on an assembly line, enough said. You could be a shrimp boat captain, but that only comes true in movies.

You could be one of those guys up in Alaska who leaves his home for 5 months at a time to live on a swaying bunk bed risking his life to provide for his family just so fatasses back in the mainland can stuff their faces with crab meat.

You could be an investment banker, yeah pays good, but who wants to sit around and talk about the money you dont have and are trying to get all day.

You could be a game show host, but after botox and facelifts keep you young into your 80s you find yourself suicidal, under scrutiny for sex scandals, or doing colonial penn life insurance commercials.

You could be a porn star, get laid and get paid, but your back would hurt after 8 hours of sex a day, then you get the coke addiction.

You could be Rosie O' Donell

You could be a fluffer.

You could be a restaurant manager, continually having to retrain zit faced pot head kids who wont show up to work on time, and having to listen to the complaints of overweight america because your employees screwed up their order.

You could be a gas station attendant, all the free slurpies, cigarettes, and chips you can handle.

You could be an astronaut, ok yeah that job is awesome.

You could be a farmer, working sun up to sun down feeding animals, picking through ******************** and worrying how your going to stay in business if there is a freeze, flood, or any other natural disaster.

Basically all jobs suck. The only other job i would rather do is
A)work at a record store
B)start my own show like jackass.

I hate to sound like an sjs backpack toting frosted hair newbie, but we get paid to fly airplanes. Yeah its a big responsibility,and theres more too it, but when you really break it down, we get paid to fly an airplane. I love my job and i am getting sh** on as a reserve at one of the worst regionals. but i understand that with hard work and patience, one day this will be hands down the only job i would want to do. Yeah its not the high paying glorified job like it was in the 60s, but who cares. If your not happy beeing a pilot F***** quit! Enough said.

disclaimer, there might be some missspeelllings, grammar errors, and or typos. I was typing rather quickly!