Interesting rumor on A-net about B6 & 190

[fokkerjet]

Anybody flown the EMB170 on the line that would care to give their impression of it? I flew a demo flight in the -170 and wasn't to impressed with it; least of which with the avionics. IMHO, my Fokker is still light years ahead of it and it's going on 20 years since development!

 

[Double Shot]

The last good airplane Emb made was the 120. Even that one was not that great...

 

[lowecur]

Anybody flown the EMB170 on the line that would care to give their impression of it? I flew a demo flight in the -170 and wasn't to impressed with it; least of which with the avionics. IMHO, my Fokker is still light years ahead of it and it's going on 20 years since development!

Is your car a Packard?

 

[lowecur]

Hot off the press: *this came from DB during the most recent pocket session

The 190 project manager was quoted as saying that the range will be "around 2000 miles...the gross weight increase will allow us to use it for missions it was originally intended"

This assumed max payload with 85% Boeing winds in the winter.

So will it go from upstate N.Y. to LAS...maybe.

FWIW

Some of the calcs on line show an ESADnm(is this the same as a Boeing wind?) of 2004 from SYR, so it may be close.

I still think they plan on using the 190's from the smaller cities to LAS in the evening, and turnaround a redeye early morning....Full utilization! Certainly BUF, RIC, SAV, JAX, MLB, RDU, are about as far east as you can go. Any small/midsized city west of them is a go. You could cap the pax at 90 for a better reserve for those cities that are borderline.

As much as SWA likes to play down the yield, their midsized city routes to LAS command a premium. They have four bucket size fares ranging from 149 to 299 from ALB & BUF one way. That doesn't include taxes and fees. The 149 fares go quick, and everything after that gets expensive. People will pay a premium to fly n/s.

 

[canyonblue]

As much as SWA likes to play down the yield, their midsized city routes to LAS command a premium. They have four bucket size fares ranging from 149 to 299 from ALB & BUF one way.

No, you missed the $109 fare (on the Southwest Shortcut). And don't forget this just announced....................


Cross-country fares are hitting new lows, at least on one carrier. Independence Air unveiled a $44 each-way fare sale that's good to all of its destinations — including Las Vegas. That's probably bad news for the industry, which has blamed its billion dollar losses partially on persistently low airfares. But, for now, it's good news for air travelers. Who would ever thought we'd see $108 round-trip fares between Washington Dulles and Las Vegas? (That's Independence Air's sale fare, including tax). From cities like New York, Chicago and Atlanta — the fare is about $168 round trip, including tax. No airline has yet matched the fare sale — perhaps because they can't afford to. Of course, there are restrictions. I-Air's fares must be booked by Friday, and travel must be completed by March 17. And since the carrier's Las Vegas flights don't start until March 1, it's a short booking window if you want to take advantage of the sale fare.

 

[roughneck]

Heck, you can give the thing a 10,000 nm range and it won't matter. The public is not going to fly an RJ when they can fly a mainline A/C for the same money. The days of mass RJ populations and popularity are soon to be over.

RJ's are going to be phased out of the "major" airports in the next 10 years I believe. (leaving them to fly only out of 2nd tier airports and serve as the were originally designed, as a commuter jet) The limited number of T/O and landing slots is going to make it much more economical for for Major airlines to fly larger aircraft.

Am I the only one NOT surprised that Lowecur didnt know how much a gallon of Jet fuel weighed?

 

[Double Shot]

Am I the only one NOT surprised that Lowecur didnt know how much a gallon of Jet fuel weighed?


No...

 

[lowecur]

Am I the only one NOT surprised that Lowecur didnt know how much a gallon of Jet fuel weighed?


No...

As JC says, "may a wolverine nurse it's young in your shorts."

 

[lowecur]

No, you missed the $109 fare (on the Southwest Shortcut). And don't forget this just announced....................


Cross-country fares are hitting new lows, at least on one carrier. Independence Air unveiled a $44 each-way fare sale that's good to all of its destinations — including Las Vegas.

$109....huh, well I'll be. You think that maybe they offer about 3 seats per flt?

FLYi? Let's see if they are still offering that fare once the 190s are flying.

 

[AutoBus]

Some of the calcs on line show an ESADnm(is this the same as a Boeing wind?) of 2004 from SYR, so it may be close.

I still think they plan on using the 190's from the smaller cities to LAS in the evening, and turnaround a redeye early morning....Full utilization!

You know there is a lot more than aircraft range than just how much fuel it can hold!

How about Maximum Takeoff Weight? Most aircraft can't takeoff with full fuel and a full load (pax, bags, etc)

Ok, let’s say we can takeoff with a full load, that extra weight will limit my maximum cruising altitude which will impact my ultimate range. (To the non-pilot types actual aircraft weight impacts how high I can cruise, which impacts range because for a given speed jets burn more fuel lower than at higher altitudes)

How ‘bout runway takeoff weight limitation, ok let’s say you can get that pig from ALB to LAS, can you get it back off the ground from LAS on a 105 degree day (yes even at night) with a full load of pax, reserves and alternate fuel?

Aircraft range and performance is a delicate balance, improving one aspect of it usually negatively impacts another.

 

[lowecur]

You know there is a lot more than aircraft range than just how much fuel it can hold!

How about Maximum Takeoff Weight? Most aircraft can't takeoff with full fuel and a full load (pax, bags, etc)the 190 can.

Ok, let’s say we can takeoff with a full load, that extra weight will limit my maximum cruising altitude which will impact my ultimate range. (To the non-pilot types actual aircraft weight impacts how high I can cruise, which impacts range because for a given speed jets burn more fuel lower than at higher altitudes)On a 5 hr flt, can't you just burn off fuel for 2hrs then go to a higher alt for the rest of the flt? Much more economical that way. Plus as you angle down from the NE to LAS, don't the heavier jetstream winds usually lighten up?

How ‘bout runway takeoff weight limitation, ok let’s say you can get that pig you call'n the 190 a pig? from ALB to LAS, can you get it back off the ground from LAS on a 105 degree day (yes even at night) with a full load of pax, reserves and alternate fuel? Then we toss the mail first, and charge fat people for 2 seats. No jump seat privileges, except CAP.

Aircraft range and performance is a delicate balance, improving one aspect of it usually negatively impacts another.

I agree, but you can't blame an investor for trying.