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Interesting RJ and Independence Air Commentary by Mike Boyd - Again...

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Heavy Set

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Nov 28, 2002
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[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]We all know Mike Boyd is not a big fan of the RJ. So, he lets us know about it in relation to the Independence Air startup. Interesting comments about potential problems with the high-frequency model and the Northeast ATC problems. Any thoughts - do you agree with him? Read below:[/font]

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[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]Can Independence Air Pull It Off?

Moving beyond sunshine studies that hype the wonder and glories of RJs, the open question is whether ACA can transform itself from a small jet provider into to an independent carrier operating over 80 50-seat jets.

Some observations...

That Scraping Sound Really Was An Iceberg. First, the carrier is visionary in recognizing that the SJP segment of the industry is in decline. Being a supplier of lift to United would not continue to provide growth, nor even long-term stability to the company. A shake-out is coming in the SJP segment. Without question, there will be a need for SJPs, but only the strongest will survive. Mesa, Skywest, and Air Wisconsin are hands-down choices as long term players. Beyond these, some of today's current SJPs won't be in the game in ten years, at least not in their current forms. And one of the most lucrative future real estate investments will be desert property - to park retired RJs.

So, ACA moving from being an SJP to an independent airline shows innovation.

But, The Costs. Forget the smoke being blown around about 50-seat jets. Their ASM costs are high, and going higher. But on short stage lengths, the necessary fares to get into the profit column are not high in terms of dollar amounts. Figure IAD-RDU, for example. If that CRJ has ASM costs in the, say, 16 cent range, the carrier can charge a base fare of around double that and still stay at or under $100 each way.

Conclusion: at least on paper, the high costs of RJ flying may not be as onerous as they look for I-Air.

But, Airlines Fly In The Sky, Not On Paper. A key component of the Independence Air plan seems to be offering very high frequencies in RJ-served markets. Unfortunately that sky is managed by an incompetent and rickety air traffic control system. The FAA's bailing-wire ATC system could toss a huge monkey wrench into the airline's plan. With six to twelve daily round trips in every market, even a minor glitch could cause big time operational chaos and significant spikes in operational costs.

Remember, despite what the FAA puts out in press releases, it is NOT weather that is the major cause of delays, particularly on the East Coast. It is the inability of the outdated and mis-managed ATC system to keep up with weather conditions.

Other frequency-related questions:

Open question: Can places like Lansing support six flights a day to IAD?

Question: The carrier intends to bring total ASM costs down by flying the airplanes gazillions of hours each day. Just how much traffic is there to and from IAD in the shoulder hours - departures before 7AM and after 6PM?

Question: With what are expected to be materially lower fares, how much traffic stimulation is possible in some of these markets? Fares between Washington and places such as Lansing (which, by the way has never had nonstop service to Washington) have historically tended to be just slightly lower than the sticker price on a new Lexus. With higher frequencies, nonstop service, and cheaper fares, it is entirely possible that some of these markets could see huge traffic spikes.

The Long-Haul Flying. Independence Air plans on adding A-319/320 service to points in the West from IAD. The vulnerability lies in how United, JetBlue, America West, and perhaps other carriers react. Obviously, with over 300 daily flights, I-Air will be the dominant player at IAD, and for that matter, Washington itself, which can give it an advantage. But that advantage is predicated on the airline's ability to gain quick and very strong consumer brand loyalty.

And That Brings Us To Brand Loyalty. As a United Express provider, ACA was carrying United's passengers, not their own. As Independence Air, brand loyalty will the the maker or the breaker of the airline's future. That means that its customer service absolutely must be lights-out, professional, exceptionally trained, and top of the industry. The days of being able to get away with the seven-flights-departing-at-once, escape-from-Saigon boarding process are over. If the customer gets the impression that I-Air is just a commuter airline, with load-'em-up-and-head-'em-out service, the airline will torpedo its own future.

Summary. The success of Independence Air will ultimately depend on things beyond just having lower fares. Three components must fall into place.

The schedule reliability cannot be unduly affected by ATC or other operational factors.

There will need to be substantial traffic stimulation in many of their markets (which is entirely possible, but not guaranteed.)

The I-Air customer must be treated so that he or she really would like to fly the airline again.

Washington/Dulles represents a unique and one-off opportunity for an SJP to attempt to break into the world of being a stand-alone airline. This summer should be an interesting one on the East Coast.

(c) 2004, The Boyd Group/ASRC, Inc. All Rights Reserved
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This clown Boyd is just trying to cover his bases, that way if Indy happens to make it he can say he was right. No better than a 2$ gypsie telling your fortune!!
 
I know IAD has many runways, but how will one of them being closed this Summer for repaving affect the frequency of the Indy RJs? Will that have any affect on the rolling hub? Just a question----there are a lot of airports with construction this Summer......


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
brand loyalty is the name of the game.

if you want to buy a ford or chevy, you go to two or three lots ,
check price and go from there. you'll always take the lower price
and expect impeccable service when it breaks.

Boyd isn't a clown in his observations. If the job growth
continues, and salesman hit the road again and bag the video
conferences, the real traffic growth predicted by gov't forecast
in the late 90's for the coming decade will hit the target of 50%
by 2010. i don't know about his desert parking lot of RJs but,
With southwest, airtran, jetblue bringing on 300+ more planes , and Delta
american, united ramping up, who is going to get screwed?
 
I would bet there is going to be consolidation in the LCC industry as much as there will be in the legacy carrier airlines. It has been postulated that only 3 of the legacy carriers will survive the rest of the decade - the remainder will merge or go Chapter 7. It would be logical to think the same thing of the LCC industry: with aircraft commonality the big thing, who will merge and who will go under?
 
I would like very much for Mr. Boyd to
jump in here and explain how weather
delays, deicing delays, and trying to
keep runways snow free during a
blizzard are the fault of a rickety
bailing wire ATC system...where
was our oracle genius when RDU was
buried in 2000? I suppose that busting
100+yr record storm was ATC's fault
too.

Dumb fuquing dumb fuqu!

There is anal in analyst!
 
General Lee said:
I know IAD has many runways, but how will one of them being closed this Summer for repaving affect the frequency of the Indy RJs? Will that have any affect on the rolling hub? Just a question----there are a lot of airports with construction this Summer......


Bye Bye---General Lee
It certaintly will not help. Luckily it's 'scheduled' to finish mid August - just as Iair gets totally ramped up. I think it's going to be the Dulles controllers who'll be the real challenge.
 
Airboard,

I think you are correct. There is one female controller at IAD that I hate. I landed the plane and tried to get off the runway as soon as possible, and eventually took a reverse high speed. The lady then yelled at us and said we needed to ask for the reverse next time. I replied, "You never said cleared to land 1L and don't use the reverse high speed..." I was just trying to get off the runway as soon as possible, and there was no traffic on any taxiway near us. What a bi-atch!

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Airboard,

... I replied, "You never said cleared to land 1L and don't use the reverse high speed..." I was just trying to get off the runway as soon as possible, and there was no traffic on any taxiway near us. What a bi-atch!

Bye Bye--General Lee
Once you pass a taxiway, you need an ATC clearance to execute a reverse or 180 on the runway. If she just said "Cleared to land 1L" then you are not authorized to use the reverse. She doesn't have to specify "don't use the reverse high speed..." But I know who you mean she is a bitch!!!
 
rubberducky said:
Once you pass a taxiway, you need an ATC clearance to execute a reverse or 180 on the runway. If she just said "Cleared to land 1L" then you are not authorized to use the reverse. She doesn't have to specify "don't use the reverse high speed..." But I know who you mean she is a bitch!!!
what's your source? mine's the AIM. tell me where it says a reverse high-speed (really a 135 degree turn) is not authorized.

AIM said:
4-3-20. EXITING THE RUNWAY AFTER LANDING
The following procedures should be followed after landing and reaching taxi speed.
a. Exit the runway without delay at the first available taxiway or on a taxiway as instructed by ATC. Pilots shall not exit the landing runway onto another runway unless authorized by ATC. At airports with an operating control tower, pilots should not stop or reverse course on the runway without first obtaining ATC approval.
b. Taxi clear of the runway unless otherwise directed by ATC. In the absence of ATC instructions the pilot is expected to taxi clear of the landing runway by clearing the hold position marking associated with the landing runway even if that requires the aircraft to protrude into or cross another taxiway, or ramp area. This does not authorize an aircraft to cross a subsequent taxiway/runway/ramp after clearing the landing runway.
NOTE -
The tower will issue the pilot with instructions which will normally permit the aircraft to enter another taxiway, runway, or ramp area when required to taxi clear of the runway by clearing the hold position marking associated with the landing runway.
c. Stop the aircraft after clearing the runway if instructions have not been received from ATC.
d. Immediately change to ground control frequency when advised by the tower and obtain a taxi clearance.
NOTE -
[1] The tower will issue instructions required to resolve any potential conflictions with other ground traffic prior to advising the pilot to contact ground control.
[2] A clearance from ATC to taxi to the ramp authorizes the aircraft to cross all runways and taxiway intersections. Pilots not familiar with the taxi route should request specific taxi instructions from ATC.
 
Urr, unless you're in ORD, then you can just throw that stupid AIM out the window. The system works just fine without it. Stupid Dulles, when will they learn.
 
rptrain said:
what's your source? mine's the AIM. tell me where it says a reverse high-speed (really a 135 degree turn) is not authorized.
Originally Posted by AIM

4-3-20. EXITING THE RUNWAY AFTER LANDING
At airports with an operating control tower, pilots should not stop or reverse course on the runway without first obtaining ATC approval.


You make my point for me. Anyway I asked IAD Tower this exact question about the reverse issue. They told me that "if you turn past 90 degrees on the runway to clear that is considered reversing course and therefore you need permission". I KNOW IAD Tower can't be wrong....riiigghtt
 
A rolling hub is a hub that cycles airplanes through continously during the day.

The old UAX way of doing things were with banks. There were 5 during the day if I recall. So dulles was busy as all getout for one hour, while all airplanes came in, and went back out. Then it would be dead for 2 hours, and the process would repeat it self. So as far as capacity is concerned, On peak it was maxed out, off peak, WAY below max.

A rolling hub is a hub that continously cycles airplanes throught. There are no banks. You can increase capacity by actually lowering the amount of flights per hour.

5 banks with 40 planes (80 movements) = 400 Movements per day.

25 planes per hour or 50 movements per hour * 16 hours = 800 Movements per day.

You just doubled your capacity by running a rolling hub, off peak is now busier (25 v 0), but on peak (25 v 40) is less busy.

It all depends on how united competes, but by adding all of those flights, believe it or not, we were actually reducing congestion. Instead of haywire, ghosttown, haywire,ghosttown, it will be more of a continous flow like at ORD.
 
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rubberducky said:
Once you pass a taxiway, you need an ATC clearance to execute a reverse or 180 on the runway. If she just said "Cleared to land 1L" then you are not authorized to use the reverse. She doesn't have to specify "don't use the reverse high speed..." But I know who you mean she is a bitch!!!
We do it every day at CVG and nobody says a word about it. Any ATC folks have the reference that says we need a special clearance to exit at a reverse high speed taxi way??
 
j41driver said:
We do it every day at CVG and nobody says a word about it. Any ATC folks have the reference that says we need a special clearance to exit at a reverse high speed taxi way??
Just cause you do it every day doesn't mean that its correct. See above for reference or AIM 4-3-20.
 
rubberducky said:

You make my point for me. Anyway I asked IAD Tower this exact question about the reverse issue. They told me that "if you turn past 90 degrees on the runway to clear that is considered reversing course and therefore you need permission". I KNOW IAD Tower can't be wrong....riiigghtt
Poppycock. Another case of IAD controllers being completely out of touch with reality. I can prove geometrically that an aircraft did not "reverse course on the runway" by exiting on a high-speed. The AIM is not regulatory anyway, so it's not like they can violate you by using this paragraph. Unless you purposefully disregard an instructon from them NOT to use the reverse, they can cry to you about it but the argument has no teeth.

link to a discussion about this issue (note: conclusion is that unless SPECIFICALLY prohibited, via published or verbal instructions, it's not an unauthorized maneuver)
http://www.propilot.com/doc/bbs/msgs/9929.html

sorry to obsess so much, but IAD pisses me off.
 
rptrain said:
Poppycock. Another case of IAD controllers being completely out of touch with reality. I can prove geometrically that an aircraft did not "reverse course on the runway" by exiting on a high-speed. The AIM is not regulatory anyway, so it's not like they can violate you by using this paragraph. Unless you purposefully disregard an instructon from them NOT to use the reverse, they can cry to you about it but the argument has no teeth.

link to a discussion about this issue (note: conclusion is that unless SPECIFICALLY prohibited, via published or verbal instructions, it's not an unauthorized maneuver)
http://www.propilot.com/doc/bbs/msgs/9929.html

sorry to obsess so much, but IAD pisses me off.
First off, I agree that IAD sucks. And I also agree that the AIM is not regulatory. But let’s look at this realistically. Lets say you make the reverse without IAD specifically saying you can (whether it’s required or not), and something happens to your aircraft. Any number of things in this scenario could cause an accident or incident (i.e., another plane on the parallel runs into you for example). Do you really think that the FAA wouldn't violate you for failure to comply with an ATC clearance? It’s happened before. They would simply find a part that this could fall under. Reckless operation comes to mind
 
rubberducky said:
First off, I agree that IAD sucks. And I also agree that the AIM is not regulatory. But let’s look at this realistically. Lets say you make the reverse without IAD specifically saying you can (whether it’s required or not), and something happens to your aircraft. Any number of things in this scenario could cause an accident or incident (i.e., another plane on the parallel runs into you for example). Do you really think that the FAA wouldn't violate you for failure to comply with an ATC clearance? It’s happened before. They would simply find a part that this could fall under. Reckless operation comes to mind
You're really grasping at straws now. "Any number of things" could go wrong if you take the reverse highspeed??? YGTBSM. Dude, if you can't make a 135 degree turn without breaking something or hurting someone, you have no business piloting any airplane whatsoever. Don't expand the scope of the discussion just to rationalize it. I didn't say "blindly come whipping around the reverse highspeed without any regard for what might be in your way." That's quite obviously reckless, just as ignoring an ATC instruction would be. Yet there's no reasonable way to argue that the basic maneuver of exiting on a reverse highspeed, in and of itself, in the absence of a specific prohibition, is unauthorized.

Also, I have little use for "it's happened before" as a reason not to do something (unless you can cite a specific example of someone being violated for this reason). The example you give is conflicting: first, I never advocated ignoring any sort of ATC clearance. Further, I wouldn't taxi the airplane in such a manner as to intentionally put it into the path of another aircraft. Finally, the AIM does say that the local controller shall issue instructions so as to prevent any potential conflicts. I get so tired of the "if something goes wrong" excuse. If something does go wrong, you're screwed anyway. So you drove the airplane into the jetbridge; better hope they don't find out you exited on the reverse highspeed.

Who started this "something-completely-unreleated-could-happen-so-i'm-not-going-to [use reduced thrust / depart from an intersection / land an RJ on a 6,000ft runway / fly an approach without an electronic glideslope / etc.] mentality? Flying airplanes is inherently unsafe. The only thing within your control is to manage the risk. If you're not confident in your ability to exit the runway safely on a reverse highspeed, then don't. But that doesn't mean that I can't.

i am looking at it realistically.
 

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