Interesting article about J.Ornstein

[Longhorn]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/19/business/19air.html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin

 

[Rip Vanwinkle]

Maybe he wouldn't hold us in such contempt if we could spell "article". Pilotyip notwithstanding because learning is for suckers.

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

Another Reason...

"China, in addition to being a huge growth opportunity, gives Mesa a place to send its planes should it lose business with bigger airlines in coming years. And the ability to shift planes abroad also gives him more bargaining leverage with the pilots union — ask for too much and the planes you’re flying disappear."


Here's another great reason NOT to go to Mesa. If the China deal goes through, Mesa pilots won't only be whipsawed against other U.S. regionals, now they can look forward to competing against their Chinese brethren as well. Not good...

 

[bandit317]

Interesting that the article mentions how "generous" he is with spending money when he's out. What about your employees a$$wipe.

 

[Guitar Guy]

And for any potential Mesa new-hires, consider how rough it might be trying to commute from the U.S. to China and back several times per month.

 

[Longhorn]

Um...my bad with the spelling.

 

[FlySacto]

And for any potential Mesa new-hires, consider how rough it might be trying to commute from the U.S. to China and back several times per month.

Third late occurance. Reason: Rickshaw hit ox cart. Fight occured with locals trying to take windbreaker from spilled luggage to mass produce for export.

 

[relief tube]

what a scumbag. He's one of the few people I wouldn't pull over for if he was bleeding on the side of the road.

 

[Beergut]

Maybe he'll ride one of his motorcycles into the path of a truck.

 

[AC560]

So what kind of free car got given away?

 

[spinproof]

everyones worst nightmare a megalomaniac with short-mans complex, power and money!

 

[Joe Schmo]

Mr. Ornstein, a stockbroker for nearly a decade before joining the airline business, admitted he had a recurring stock-picking habit, and said that in a good year his market gains could outweigh his substantial airline pay. In the year ended Sept. 30, 2006, Mesa paid him about $1.6 million in cash and stock and he had a $2.8 million gain from exercising stock options.


How's that make you mesa pilots feel that all your hard work goes to fund this a$$wipe's gambiling problem.

 

[Gobi Gred]

He's not the first scumbag to run an airline and unfortunately probably not the last. What a narcissist.

 

[Almerick07]

I saw a xmas card he sent out to all his employees in the trash....his daughter is smoking hot though. That would be one father-in-law i dont think i could take, no matter how hot and rich the daughter.

 

[Soverytired]

So what kind of free car got given away?

It's a SCION.

And the rumor is (and I can't confirm) . . . the lucky "winner" is actually given a 3 year lease on the car, at which time they're expected either buy or return it.


I'm not gonna vent on this topic (JO? The perfect CEO or the proverbial "I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire?" ) cuz I think the article pretty much speaks for itself.

Gotta love a Christmas party with "go-go dancers" at a swingers club he's part owner in. And although the first drink is free, the rest you gotta pay for. Just the sort of place I want to take my wife. Not like they already don't think pilots and flight attendants are a bunch of libertines anyway. Let's feed that myth, shall we?

Anyone wanna bet he's billing Mesa Air Group for the whole thing?

 

[nimtz]

"Mr. Ornstein is a throwback to an era when airlines tended to resemble the personalities of their chief executives."

Mr Johnny O you couldn't suck from the ashtray of real leaders like CR Smith and Robert Six. Free cars for perfect attendance. Gee wonder where he stole that ideal from! At the end of the day all you manage is the sh!ttiest regional airline...

 

[Bluestreak]

"Mr. Ornstein is a throwback to an era when airlines tended to resemble the personalities of their chief executives."

Mr Johnny O you couldn't suck from the ashtray of real leaders like CR Smith and Robert Six. Free cars for perfect attendance. Gee wonder where he stole that ideal from! At the end of the day all you manage is the sh!ttiest regional airline...

He's not fit to lick the shoes of Tom Davis,Sr.

 

[711-24-7]

Taking other airlines flying...........$19.00 an hour

Having quick upgrade and stall at CPT position...........1.5years

Get to fly a jet with 200 hours right out of flight school.........$90,000

Loosing flying to China when the contract is up in March 2007, 90,000 plus the interest, humiliation by others, and peers industry wide looking down on you.....................PRICELESS!

 

[Soverytired]

Taking other airlines flying (I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS ANYMORE)...........$19.00 an hour (nope, unless you're flying one of about 10 1900's or 15 dash-8's)

Having quick upgrade and stall at CPT position...........1.5years (nope, that's still the ballpark upgrade, faster on the beech or street hires on the dash)

Get to fly a jet with 200 hours right out of flight school.........$90,000 (nowhere near that much, and quite a few pay out of pocket anyway, that program is dying on the vine, and most pilots now come through the "right" way . .. . whatever that is)

Loosing (LOSING?) flying to China when the contract is up in March 2007 (WRONG AGAIN), 90,000 plus the interest, humiliation by others (WHO, YOU?), and peers (PILOTS NOT INCLUDING YOU?) industry wide looking down on you.....................PRICELESS! (JO's and certain a-hole flightino'ers wet dream)

Uh . . . . nope. What are you, JO's fan club charter member?

Everything about your post bespeaketh ignorance about Mesa pilots in general.

Tool.

 

[711-24-7]

WOW I think the person who defends MESA and their business goals is a tool. Since it seems like you think highly of MESA that would not make me a tool. By the way I am being ignorant about MESA pilots, I think Mesa Pilots are the one taking the bait and stepping all over other pilots shoes who are working hard to bring the pay rate up. Did I hear JO say he will just take away compnay planes when pilots try to ask for more money. Hence he has got MESA pilots by their ba11$. Considering ,most of MESA pilots can't afford to live with out a job. So they will sign another crappy contract. Or loose their jobs and come to an Airline that has been working hard to keep the pay rates up. And bring the level of pay down even more. Think about it Mr. I am defending MESA and people who work there. Oh may be you have a future in editing. Have fun editing this..............

 

[Soverytired]

By the way I am being ignorant about MESA pilots, .

Hey, we agree on something! You're ignorant!

("I am being?" English your second language or something?)


Next time you slam Mesa pilots and the cripe they have to put up with, why don't you do your research? You obviously have a lot of uninformed opinions about us.

The fact that you think that either:

1.) My post defended JO or Mesa work rules

2.) You somehow defended Mesa pilots

Pretty much proves you're a TOOL. God knows, flightinfo is the spot if you want to come and bash Mesa . . . how could anyone screw this up?

(I guess now we know)

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

I'll jump in on this one...

Sorry but I couldn't pass on putting my $.02 in on this little spat.

Here's my take on this and you tell me if I'm wrong... The supply of new pilots is falling fast, explaining why minimums are falling and regionals are having a hard time filling classes, agreed???

Secondly, regionals with better pay, higher QOL, better treatment of their pilots, ect., such as Expressjet, SkyWest (and yes, even ASA treats it's pilots better than Mesa) are hiring like crazy trying to fill classes. Still with me so far???

Lastly, JO goes out of business without pilots to fly his planes... Can't really argue with that one, can we???

So if you accept those basic assumptions (and they're pretty hard to deny right now) then it wouldn't be hard to put JO right out of business. If pilots simply wouldn't apply to Mesa/Freedom, it would starve to death due to lack of crews and JO would have one of two options, increase pilot pay and QOL, or fold up shop and GO AWAY... either option better than the current status quo.

But here's the kicker and why I generally agree with the widely held belief that Mesa pilots are looked down upon. Pilots who choose to go to Mesa do so because they see it as a short cut, "I'll suck it up, put up with JO's BS, get my quick upgrade, log my 1,000 hours and move on." Well, now that's not working out so well that the upgrades are starting to take a little longer and they're stuck "putting up" with JO's crap for longer than they had planned.

Mesa pilots are truly screwed now because before, if pilots had quit applying or the Mesa Union demanded a better contract under threat of a strike, JO would have had no choice but to negotiate, because planes don't fly very well without pilots. Now, if JO doesn't like what he sees from his US labor force, he just takes his toys and goes and plays elsewhere (ie: China). It's happened in other industries, and it's taken a scumbag like JO to bring outsourcing to the pilot profession.

All I can say to a prospective Mesa pilot is to think long and hard about who you're going to be working for. He's already shown that he doesn't give a crap about pilots so why become a "tool" for JO???

 

[Soverytired]

Sorry but I couldn't pass on putting my $.02 in on this little spat.

(insert some "MOSTLY" non-inflamatory "Mesa sucks" blurbs here)

All I can say to a prospective Mesa pilot is to think long and hard about who you're going to be working for. He's already shown that he doesn't give a crap about pilots so why become a "tool" for JO???

Not every pilot wants to work for a major, and not every regional pilot wants to start over at the bottom somewhere else. (I do though!) You would deny them that choice.

I refuse to hold it against anyone who just wants to fly CRJ's in IAD for 50k a year, for example. Or is perfectly happy making 30k flying 1900's out of PIT.

Flightinfo Mesa-bashing fanatics, however, take it a step further. Every little thing that is wrong with their ********************ty regional is Mesa's fault.

Sure, we haven't gotten any new business or growth in YEARS (2 year . . . now 1 year 10 dash-8 Delta try-out aside).

Sure, all the growth is going to Skywest and Republic, but "Mesa is stealing all our flying!".

Sure, Mesa is spooling up for a contract fight this year . . . and after 10 years of dumping money into ALPA's coffers, I'd expect a little "brotherhood" mentality. (I personally cut special assesment checks to Comair guys when they were on strike . . . DID YOU?) But no! Freedom=Mesa=Scabs!

Flightinfo Mesa-bashers are pathetic. They exhibit "projection" of the worst sort . . . projecting every flaw in themselves, their abilities, their weak unions and so forth upon Mesa pilots.

And if you say Mesa pilots are somehow collectively responsible for the state of the industry or YOUR airline simply because they work here (for whatever reason) . . . TOUGH. If your strategy for having a better life involves having 2000 total strangers do exactly what you want . .. you're going to have a very disappointing life.

Do some Mesa pilots wear I-pods and have spiky hair? Yes. But every organization has a few 'tards. I've seen plenty of fat mainline pilots, and that's a fact.

So bash away. I just shake my head and think what a bunch of eternal teenagers and 'tards make up a small, but vocal part of the flightinfo pilot group.

 

[capt. megadeth]

711-24-7 is your avatar a dude from Slipknot?

 

[Non Union]

Why would he care about his employees? He is there to run a business, not a soup kitchen.

Don't be silly, his airline would do just fine without all the pesky employees.

 

[bandit317]

SoVeryTired...Well said. This is why I usually ignore flightinfo, just a bunch of highschool mentality pilots venting their frustrations on the easiest target - Mesa pilots. To all non-Mesa pilot, when was the last time you heard a Mesa pilot bash another company's pilots? Maybe you all should learn from us, a true professional knows when to keep his mouth shut.

 

[mdanno808]

So how do you think negotiations will go? Is everyone as fed up as you are Soverytired? I hope you guys stick it that scumbag OJ.

Also, how are the FA's doing with their negotiations?

 

[Soverytired]

So how do you think negotiations will go? Is everyone as fed up as you are Soverytired? I hope you guys stick it that scumbag OJ.

Also, how are the FA's doing with their negotiations?

I think the union is in much better shape now that it's under new leadership. I think many very senior pilots are ready for a shake up, and are willing to put up a nasty fight for a better contract. Flightinfo aside, ALPA national has put $$$millions at our disposal for our contract fight.

However, legacy carriers are hiring our captains away in ever bigger numbers, and a HUGE number of junior (<2.5 year) first officers are jumping ship to work for other regionals. While this is certainly a plus in terms of career opportunities, a quickly churning pilot force with high turnover is anthema to the concept of a strong union. This is NOT a good sign, JO knows it, and he'll exploit it ruthlessly ("Quick upgrades for everyone!" . . .sigh.)

Add the whole China thing to the mix, and I think this is going to be an uphill slog, with the advantage very much in JO's favor. I must admit, I don't intend to be here to see it, (trying to vote with my feet right now), but I'll do what I can when the time comes if I'm here.

Oh . . . the F/A's are f'-ed. JO liked that little "Cost neutral" comment that D.Parker put out, and word is that's the tone he's taking with the f/a's. And THEIR turnover is unbelievable. A 2 year f/a is incredibly senior here . . . the vast majority quit after 6 months, and NONE of them could afford a strike longer than a couple of days.

Personally, I hope they strike, but they'll be hard pressed to pull together with their extremely short term mentality . . . .I pity the senior f/a's here. They're quite gloomy about their prospects.