Interesting article about J.Ornstein

[Soverytired]

By the way I am being ignorant about MESA pilots, .

Hey, we agree on something! You're ignorant!

("I am being?" English your second language or something?)


Next time you slam Mesa pilots and the cripe they have to put up with, why don't you do your research? You obviously have a lot of uninformed opinions about us.

The fact that you think that either:

1.) My post defended JO or Mesa work rules

2.) You somehow defended Mesa pilots

Pretty much proves you're a TOOL. God knows, flightinfo is the spot if you want to come and bash Mesa . . . how could anyone screw this up?

(I guess now we know)

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

I'll jump in on this one...

Sorry but I couldn't pass on putting my $.02 in on this little spat.

Here's my take on this and you tell me if I'm wrong... The supply of new pilots is falling fast, explaining why minimums are falling and regionals are having a hard time filling classes, agreed???

Secondly, regionals with better pay, higher QOL, better treatment of their pilots, ect., such as Expressjet, SkyWest (and yes, even ASA treats it's pilots better than Mesa) are hiring like crazy trying to fill classes. Still with me so far???

Lastly, JO goes out of business without pilots to fly his planes... Can't really argue with that one, can we???

So if you accept those basic assumptions (and they're pretty hard to deny right now) then it wouldn't be hard to put JO right out of business. If pilots simply wouldn't apply to Mesa/Freedom, it would starve to death due to lack of crews and JO would have one of two options, increase pilot pay and QOL, or fold up shop and GO AWAY... either option better than the current status quo.

But here's the kicker and why I generally agree with the widely held belief that Mesa pilots are looked down upon. Pilots who choose to go to Mesa do so because they see it as a short cut, "I'll suck it up, put up with JO's BS, get my quick upgrade, log my 1,000 hours and move on." Well, now that's not working out so well that the upgrades are starting to take a little longer and they're stuck "putting up" with JO's crap for longer than they had planned.

Mesa pilots are truly screwed now because before, if pilots had quit applying or the Mesa Union demanded a better contract under threat of a strike, JO would have had no choice but to negotiate, because planes don't fly very well without pilots. Now, if JO doesn't like what he sees from his US labor force, he just takes his toys and goes and plays elsewhere (ie: China). It's happened in other industries, and it's taken a scumbag like JO to bring outsourcing to the pilot profession.

All I can say to a prospective Mesa pilot is to think long and hard about who you're going to be working for. He's already shown that he doesn't give a crap about pilots so why become a "tool" for JO???

 

[Soverytired]

Sorry but I couldn't pass on putting my $.02 in on this little spat.

(insert some "MOSTLY" non-inflamatory "Mesa sucks" blurbs here)

All I can say to a prospective Mesa pilot is to think long and hard about who you're going to be working for. He's already shown that he doesn't give a crap about pilots so why become a "tool" for JO???

Not every pilot wants to work for a major, and not every regional pilot wants to start over at the bottom somewhere else. (I do though!) You would deny them that choice.

I refuse to hold it against anyone who just wants to fly CRJ's in IAD for 50k a year, for example. Or is perfectly happy making 30k flying 1900's out of PIT.

Flightinfo Mesa-bashing fanatics, however, take it a step further. Every little thing that is wrong with their ********************ty regional is Mesa's fault.

Sure, we haven't gotten any new business or growth in YEARS (2 year . . . now 1 year 10 dash-8 Delta try-out aside).

Sure, all the growth is going to Skywest and Republic, but "Mesa is stealing all our flying!".

Sure, Mesa is spooling up for a contract fight this year . . . and after 10 years of dumping money into ALPA's coffers, I'd expect a little "brotherhood" mentality. (I personally cut special assesment checks to Comair guys when they were on strike . . . DID YOU?) But no! Freedom=Mesa=Scabs!

Flightinfo Mesa-bashers are pathetic. They exhibit "projection" of the worst sort . . . projecting every flaw in themselves, their abilities, their weak unions and so forth upon Mesa pilots.

And if you say Mesa pilots are somehow collectively responsible for the state of the industry or YOUR airline simply because they work here (for whatever reason) . . . TOUGH. If your strategy for having a better life involves having 2000 total strangers do exactly what you want . .. you're going to have a very disappointing life.

Do some Mesa pilots wear I-pods and have spiky hair? Yes. But every organization has a few 'tards. I've seen plenty of fat mainline pilots, and that's a fact.

So bash away. I just shake my head and think what a bunch of eternal teenagers and 'tards make up a small, but vocal part of the flightinfo pilot group.

 

[capt. megadeth]

711-24-7 is your avatar a dude from Slipknot?

 

[Non Union]

Why would he care about his employees? He is there to run a business, not a soup kitchen.

Don't be silly, his airline would do just fine without all the pesky employees.

 

[bandit317]

SoVeryTired...Well said. This is why I usually ignore flightinfo, just a bunch of highschool mentality pilots venting their frustrations on the easiest target - Mesa pilots. To all non-Mesa pilot, when was the last time you heard a Mesa pilot bash another company's pilots? Maybe you all should learn from us, a true professional knows when to keep his mouth shut.

 

[mdanno808]

So how do you think negotiations will go? Is everyone as fed up as you are Soverytired? I hope you guys stick it that scumbag OJ.

Also, how are the FA's doing with their negotiations?

 

[Soverytired]

So how do you think negotiations will go? Is everyone as fed up as you are Soverytired? I hope you guys stick it that scumbag OJ.

Also, how are the FA's doing with their negotiations?

I think the union is in much better shape now that it's under new leadership. I think many very senior pilots are ready for a shake up, and are willing to put up a nasty fight for a better contract. Flightinfo aside, ALPA national has put $$$millions at our disposal for our contract fight.

However, legacy carriers are hiring our captains away in ever bigger numbers, and a HUGE number of junior (<2.5 year) first officers are jumping ship to work for other regionals. While this is certainly a plus in terms of career opportunities, a quickly churning pilot force with high turnover is anthema to the concept of a strong union. This is NOT a good sign, JO knows it, and he'll exploit it ruthlessly ("Quick upgrades for everyone!" . . .sigh.)

Add the whole China thing to the mix, and I think this is going to be an uphill slog, with the advantage very much in JO's favor. I must admit, I don't intend to be here to see it, (trying to vote with my feet right now), but I'll do what I can when the time comes if I'm here.

Oh . . . the F/A's are f'-ed. JO liked that little "Cost neutral" comment that D.Parker put out, and word is that's the tone he's taking with the f/a's. And THEIR turnover is unbelievable. A 2 year f/a is incredibly senior here . . . the vast majority quit after 6 months, and NONE of them could afford a strike longer than a couple of days.

Personally, I hope they strike, but they'll be hard pressed to pull together with their extremely short term mentality . . . .I pity the senior f/a's here. They're quite gloomy about their prospects.