Interesting analysis of the "Big Six"

[SWAdude]

Don't tell SWA but I would be willing to work for way less than what they are willing to pay me.

You won't be saying that for long.

Its ok to like where you work and have a good paying job.

SWAdude

 

[OPIE01]

I was wondering where my son was.

SWA Dude,

That Kid on your Picture looks just like my youngest son.

I know my patience will pay off in a great job and great pay. I can't wait to work for a Company that on 9/11/01 all the pilots rallied together and said they would do what ever it took not to furlough anyone.

 

[Publishers]

Deregulation

The article had a great many points that were right on target.

There is little qustion that it started with deregulation. Airlines had a philospophy and the fact that their routes were protected, meant they were not efficient, not driven, and spent most of their time securing the correct routes.

Deregulation changed the way the game was played, the basic rules of the game, and who had the advantage.

There were other factors as well. Leasing tended to erode the value of the business. Companies like ILFC changed the way aircraft deals were done.

Masked -- there were real market changes going on as well. In fact fewer and fewer tickets were sold at price. Problems were masked by yield management practices and the way tickets were sold.

Will the big six prosper again, depends on their ability to adapt to the new rules.

 

[CALformerCALX]

Well this thread has some excellent points and debates but in reality "deregulation" didn't kill the Legacy's. What it is going to do is one of the two over the next 10-20 years.

-The Legacy's will have to drop Int'l flying to be more domestic in structure and go face to face with the SWAs of the industry. Why? Becaue we can't afford to constantly put the most expensive equipment i.e. widebodys, along with the associated support equipment and staff in economies that are more cyclical than our own countrys economy.

The LCC are profitable, not because of lower labor costs but because of lower initial startup costs and the ability to fly only in domestic markets that truly make sense with a fleet that is very common.

-All Legacy domestic flying will go to regionals and the old Legacys will simply fly widebody aircraft Int'l only.

I've believed for some time that for CAL to honestly servive they need to slowly downsize the Int'l fleet and keep expanding the 737 with the idea of getting completely out of Int'l flying.

I would love to see the investment community and DC polititians when there are no US carriers willing to accept Int'l routes and all that money is being lost to Int'l carriers.

Until Washington realizes this problem only the LCC will continue to thrive in this country and the Big 6 will dwindle to the Big one and even it won't be very profitable, if at all.

No Big 6 can compete with the LCC when they have to maintain a domestic route structure just to fill Int'l flights. I say to heck with the Int'l flying and we should all go domestic only over hte next 10 years-then let's see how the playing field is then.

The proof is in how most all regionals make money yet their major counterparts struggle.

 

[mach none]

Re: What is industry Leading wages?

Why does everyone blame the LCC employees.


But when fellow pilots bash LCC pilots because they are willing to work for $160 an hour as a Capt instead of Demanding $210, you have crossed the line in my book. If I stay health at SWA, In my third year I'll be making more than I did after 20 years Flying for the military.

So are you going to write a check to Southwest each month for anything over 160/hour? That is over the "line" in your book.

 

[Astra Guy]

Attaboy OPIE,

I read this thread yesterday and needed some time to get my thoughts together before posting. I am not in the 121 business, by choice, but I do know a few things about flying and business.

There are lots of inequities in life, such as pro sports' paychecks, some of whom have the mentality of a chair, actors, etc. It goes on and on. However, they gain their wealth because people are willing to pay the price for their contributions. Our economy is consumer driven. If I can go nonstop from ATL to SFO and return for $300 or less on a LCC compared to $1,000 or more on a Legacy which one do you think I will take? To add insult to injury the Legacy types act like they are doing you a favor to boot!

The good old days are gone, guys and gals. No longer will you be able to knock down $300K/year while working 10 days/month and start a business on the side since you have so much idle time and extra cash. Do you really think that the pups coming up in this business wouldn't be happy to do their job and cap out at $150K in today's money? If they aren't then they are dillusional.

SWA seems to have it together, along with some others. Their people reap of the happiness of doing a good job, being paid fairly well for it and of course, working for a great company. Hey, they even act like you are doing them a favor....and you are!

Athletes and actors aside, do you really think that it is right for an airline type to make more than most VPs in billion dollar companies when those same VPs work 6 days/week? Come on!

You either love flying or you don't. If this flying business is just a means to get that pot of gold then, in my opinion, you are in it for the wrong reason.

Management without vision and greedy employees who act in a condescending way towards the very people who pay the bills have created this situation. The layers of fat in many of the Legacy types, or as they are called, is deep. Ineffectiveness spews from all aspects of their actions. It is still all about customer service and not lip service.

We all should take pride in our individual skills since that is what makes us successful and allows us to "arrive alive" after each and every flight. Focus on your skills and what you bring to the table in terms of your contribution to this industry.....not your paycheck, if you have enough to live on. If they pay is not enough to live "in the manner in which you think you deserve" then get out. There is always the chance to work like most do....six days/week and just get by.

OPIE's and my early life experiences are similar. I came from nothing and have had a chance to rise economically because of my dedication and focus. I am where I want to be and that is not just working 10 days/month at $300K/year.

 

[OPIE01]

Writing a Check for the extra Money

MACH ONE Wrote

So are you going to write a check to Southwest each month for anything over 160/hour? That is over the "line" in your book.

Well in a sense "YES", I have tithed 10% to my church for years now and give to my niece who is a missionary, plus the Government is going to tax the heck out of me.

I know a successful man who when he was starting out in his buisness was struggling financially, but still tithed 10% to his church. Over the years he kept increasing his percentage of tithing as his buisness got bigger and he made more money. Now he gives >50% of his income to his church and charities. He jokingly said that he is going to stop giving because God has blessed him to the point that his company and wealth have gotten almost to much for him to handle.

To answer your question, No I don't plan to write SWA a check for the overage. But I will work my butt off for them and enjoy everyday to the max extent possible. But, YES I will right a check for the overage to my church and charities if God decides to continue to bless me with good health and a successful career with a great company like SWA. There is one thing my parent's taught me and that is that I can't out give God.