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instrument failure

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cforst513 said:
... i notice that the airspeed indicator was not coming off of 0 kts. instead of electing to abort my take off and apply the brakes, i took off.

...

according to ATOMATOFLAMES, you need it for VFR flight. did i make the right decision or should i have applied the brakes, aborted, and gone back to the ramp? what would you do?
First off, let's dispel the little myth of "What would you do?" Quite honestly, we probably don't know what we'd do. We can sit in our comfortable chairs and weigh the facts as we know them now and pontificate about what we SHOULD HAVE done, or what we envision ourselves in a perfect world wanting to do, but when the exact circumstances present themselves to us unexpectedly, what we ACTUALLY do in that split second of decision might be quite different. Take comfort in that, then, if the course of action you took and the course of action you wish you would have taken are not quite the same.

The vague description of the position in which you found yourself when the airpseed indicator was discovered to be inoperative makes it difficult to give a simple answer to your question about the correctness of your decision to continue the takeoff or reject/abort. If at the time you affirmed the instrument failure you had sufficient runway ahead of you to safely stop the airplane without taking any undue risks, I believe (there it is, the opinion - - take it with a grain of salt) the better course of action would have been to stop the airplane. I don't say this because I think the airplane requires an instrument to fly. Clearly, it does not. I say this because the FAA has determined what is legally required to fly, and we fly at the pleasure of the FAA. Although it was a split-second decision, you decided to go fly without the required equipment.

If the determination that the airspeed indicator was inoperative came AFTER the point where you could still safely stop the airplane, then you made the correct decision to continue the takeoff. The requirement of equipment was superceded by the safety of aborting the takeoff. You also made the correct decision to terminate the flight by bringing it back around to land.

The thing is, only you can know if you made the correct decision, because you're the only one that was there. Right or wrong, you learned from the experience, and in sharing it, we have all pondered the question and learned as well. One poster described an airpeed indicator that was "teasing" him, fluctuating from 0 to 40 before actually going to zero -- how would we handle that? How long would we go before we decided it was not going to work? If we're taking off on a 12,000 foot runway, the safety of an abort is enhanced. How will our decision-making be affected by a 6,000 foot runway? By a 3,000 foot runway? By a 1,000 foot runway? Would crosswinds affect the decision? Would it be affected by a wet or snow-covered runway? Does it matter if it's tarmac, gravel, or grass?

If in retrospect you determine that you had the opportunity to safely abort the takeoff, and that you made the wrong decision ( not a problem, we've all made wrong decisions), then you should do the aviation community a favor by submitting the NASA ASRS form. By doing so, you can share your experience with the folks who study these events, and perhaps provide some useful insights into how we as an industry can improve decision-making skills. It certainly can't hurt you. The only potential is benefit.




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cforst513 said:
as for the NASA form, i didnt' break any regulations, did i?

Remember, it's an aviation safety reporting system...so...report it. It could help in the future...

It can't take more than 10 minutes to fill out and at 37 cents to mail it in...I'd do it.

Can't hurt...and then you'll be familiar with the system when the time comes when you do something that you really need to send one in to CYA...

JMHO

-mini
 
Same thing happened to me. In a hurry trying to deliver a Seneca III so I did a kick the tires and light the fires preflight. My airspeed didn't come alive b/c the maintanence guys put tape over it. I aborted the t/o, went back to the ramp and pulled off the tape. I couldnt imagine trying to guess what airspeed I was at w/o an airspeed indicator.
 
Look at it this way, if you were on an IFR flight into low IMC and you lost the AS indicator, chances are you would have stopped that 172 on the remaining runway. It sounds like you caught it pretty early on the T/O roll and perhaps in surprise or denial, kept the plane rolling as you have been trained to be commited to the T/O, short of an engine failure. We all know the plane will still fly without this instrument in VFR conditions (pitch and power), although it is required for IFR and VFR flight. You subconsciously knew that you were VFR and could very well fly it around for resequencing.

Not sure if you are familiar with the V1 milestone on the TO roll for twins, but there is a point where you would be commited to T/O should a problem arise.
 
You can monitor your AOA and airspeed without the indicator. You can feel tension in the controls, wind noise, etc. If you were low on runway remaining, you didn't foul anything up by taking off and bringing it around. In fact, it sounds like you did a nice job. Learn from it and move on.
 
Same people that call "airspeed alive" in a 172 feel the need to call ref speeds out on final, definately gay...
 
yes, KingAir, there was no cover on the pitot tube.

so i get back in the same aircraft today, checked the MX records, and it says that they took apart, cleaned, and then reassembled tbe pitot tube. they tested it and no probs. so i go to take off today, SAME PROBLEM!!! only this time i was looking for it and i aborted. it was interesting, though, b/c i started skidding sideways, but i quickly got it back under control. i went out later w/ our assistant chief and we were going to do a pattern, but same problem: no airspeed indicated. we aborted there and taxied back to our school. wrote it up AGAIN. in my unprofessional opinion, it's the actual airspeed gauge. i am quickly not liking that airplane...
 
icefr8dawg said:
Same people that call "airspeed alive" in a 172 feel the need to call ref speeds out on final, definately gay...

ummm....are they MORE gay than you making this comment?
 
cforst513 said:
the needle was kind of hopping around, but it was by no means "alive". I wasn't sure if i became airborne that it might start working right. hindsight being 20/20, i probably had enough runway space to stop. but what about that NASA form? so far only one person has mentioned it. what do the rest of you think? should i fill one out?

Keep this in mind. The A/S indicator being broke won't kill ya. But at your experience level focusing on it will. What I mean if for a low time pilot to have something like this happen can be very distracting. Thats where you'd get hurt. Lots of guys would have continued. I would suggest at your level that you had aborted. JMHO
 
Cforst513, good question.
This is what I do in the jets:
If it's a situation that requires you to stop NOW, then abort. (fire, blown tire, loss of directional control...). If it's a situation that may not be that dire, like a single generator failure, then I would do exactly as you did. Reasons (remember it's a multi engine jet, so I'm giving you basic pointers.)
Why bend the airplane for a "nonsence" item?
We will have more runway available, and be going slower, if we do go around the pattern once. I wouldn't go around the pattern while on fire, though!
Does this make sens? Except for the a/s indicator, the plane flew normally, huh?
Sounds to me like you did fine.
Love the avtar. Giggidy!
 
Captain4242 said:
Cforst513, good question.
This is what I do in the jets:
If it's a situation that requires you to stop NOW, then abort. (fire, blown tire, loss of directional control...). If it's a situation that may not be that dire, like a single generator failure, then I would do exactly as you did. Reasons (remember it's a multi engine jet, so I'm giving you basic pointers.)
Why bend the airplane for a "nonsence" item?
We will have more runway available, and be going slower, if we do go around the pattern once. I wouldn't go around the pattern while on fire, though!
Does this make sens? Except for the a/s indicator, the plane flew normally, huh?
Sounds to me like you did fine.
Love the avtar. Giggidy!
thanks captain. the reason i'm making a stink out of this is because it's my first instrument failure (check the low time). i know it wasn't a big deal, and aside from electing to take off and not squeal the tires, i felt fine when i did my pattern sans airspeed indicator. i just landed fast and floated a bit, which i'll take, believe me! i was more freaked out when i elected to abort my takeoff the next day and was skidding sideways down the runway. they found what the problem was - a mud dobbers (sp?) nest inside the pitot tube! stupid bugs. thanks for the pointers, though.
 
cforst513 said:
yes, KingAir, there was no cover on the pitot tube.

so i get back in the same aircraft today, checked the MX records, and it says that they took apart, cleaned, and then reassembled tbe pitot tube. they tested it and no probs. so i go to take off today, SAME PROBLEM!!! only this time i was looking for it and i aborted. it was interesting, though, b/c i started skidding sideways, but i quickly got it back under control. i went out later w/ our assistant chief and we were going to do a pattern, but same problem: no airspeed indicated. we aborted there and taxied back to our school. wrote it up AGAIN. in my unprofessional opinion, it's the actual airspeed gauge. i am quickly not liking that airplane...
Whats the tail number, so I stay away from it ?
 

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