Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Instrument Current?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mocaman
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 10

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Ok, how about this one. I did a flight review for a PSEL w/ instrument privliages. The flight review went fine, but when it came time to do the IPC, I told the person that for an IPC, I require six approaches, intercepting and tracking, along with holds, and of course what is required by the PTS.

The person inquestion protested about the six approaches that he had never had to do that many approaches for an IPC (4 at the most). We looked in the logbok, and the last approaches logged occured two and a half years ago. I explained that, in the interest of safety, it would be best to do six approaches.

I looked in 61.57, the PTS, and I'm trying my best to interpret this question of how many approaches to accomplish. Anybody have any thoughts?
 
No specific number of approaches is required to be performed during the conduct of an instrument proficiency check. What is done is at the discretion of the instructor or check airman conducting the check, and attesting to the instrument proficiency of the person underoing the check.

You are required to have six approaches in six months to maintain currency...you are not required to have six approaches during the course of the IPC.

If you desire to get the six approaches, then good for you. You're making a smart decision. You can do more than six, too.

An IPC should generally include the same items that would be required on a checkride, though the person administering the IPC may elect to concentrate on specific areas such as maneuvering with an engine out for approaches and partial panel...which are things that most pilots don't do except during training.

The regulation, 14 CFR 61.57(d), only requires that a "representative number" of tasts from the practical test standards be administered, and the number of these tasks, and their type and appication, are at the discretion of the individual administering the check.

If you only performed one instrument approach during that check, it had better have been with one engine inoperative...and the examiner was pushing his luck.

This checkride may be used in place of a flight review, but will not cover your requirements for instrument proficiency unless you complete a representative number of tasks from the instrument rating PTS. If you've done this, you've met the requirement. No requirment exists for a logbook entry, though practically, you may have difficulty showing compliance without obtaining an entry stating that you passed.

In this case, your test was for instrument privileges in an airplane, specifically a multi engine airplane. You have been tested by an examiner for instrument privileges, and this will meet the requirement. The evidence is that you passed the check is that you have been issued a temporary airman certificate.

Personally, in such a situation, I ask the examiner for a signoff anyway. I amy not need it, and generally speaking over the years I've never needed an IPC or flight review because of the regulations under which I've operated and taken my checkrides. I ask for the signoffs anyway. The check airman, examiner, inspector, etc, always grumbles, and signs as requested.

In lieu of an IPC signoff in your logbook, you have your Form 8710 which will cite what was done for the ride and your status in meeting those standards (satisfactory), as well as the signature of the examiner attesting to the fact that you have met the standard. Always keep a copy. If anyone questions your accomplishment, this proof is indisputable.

Having said that, I'd strongly encourage you to go get further instruction and regular instrument practice and training in multi engine airplanes (and single, for that matter). While you may have met the technical requirements, (which should be irrelevant, because you ought to have done at least 6 approaches, holding, and tracking during your preparation for that practical test), but if the examiner only had you fly one approach, he was pushing his limits with respect to testing you on the bare minimum. Hopefully he also covered engin-out work on instruments, and other areas that pertain to your proficiency.

You can never get enough proficiency training, regardless of the regulation. Remember, the regulation sets a minimum standard. No law or regulation prohibits you from doing more, and doing it better. Good luck!
 
The regulation, 14 CFR 61.57(d), only requires that a "representative number" of tasts from the practical test standards be administered, and the number of these tasks, and their type and appication, are at the discretion of the individual administering the check.
Not since two IFR PTS revisions ago. When the FAA first added the "PC" tasks to the PTS, there was some disagreement about whether they applied to CFIIs administering the test or just to DPEs. As I recall, the FAA pretty much resolved the issue when the next revision came out - there was a lot of discussion about it at the time, especially about the inability to do a full IPC in an FTD since they are not (usually) certified for circling approaches.

The "representative number of tasks" (which, interestingly, 61.57(d) does =not= describe as discretionary - unlike the 61.56 flight review) are those described in the PC table in the PTS ("Required TASKs for instrument proficiency checks (PC) are also contained in these practical test standards."), at least as a minimum.

Other than that, Avbug is right - there is no minimum number of approaches - except the number that is needed to accomplish all of the PC tasks.
 
Last edited:
Mocaman- Don said the same thing to me as well after i did my multi. Understand that this is an Add on rating. You can now instrument and commercial stuff in the twin. It does NOT reset your BFR. You would have to ask him for the bfr sign off but then its required that you do 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight and on my check ride i didnt get to an hour on either one of them. I also dont believe it counts as an IPC, however im going to look that up so i know for myself as well.
 
Mocaman- Don said the same thing to me as well after i did my multi. Understand that this is an Add on rating. You can now instrument and commercial stuff in the twin. It does NOT reset your BFR. You would have to ask him for the bfr sign off but then its required that you do 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight and on my check ride i didnt get to an hour on either one of them. I also dont believe it counts as an IPC, however im going to look that up so i know for myself as well.

Incorrect.
If it's a multiengine rating, then it the checkride does count as a FR.
 
I stand corrected; Midlifeflyer is correct. Under the current PTS, the tasks for the Instrument Proficiency Check are not waiverable. They are spelled out as mandatory task by task, and therefore, must be completed.

Amishrake is also correct that this practical test resets the clock for your flight review, and may be credited toward the requiremets for a flight review.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom