Instrument Current?

[mocaman]

I did my multi checkride a few days ago. When the examiner was filing out my temp airman certificate, he told me that this checkride resets my instrument currency. I was due for an IPC, but according to the examiner since we did instrument work on the checkride, I am good to go. Does this sound right? Thanks

 

[FlaZoomie]

Multi commercial? Did you do some hood time?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I'll have to disagree with the examiner.

 

[Goose Egg]

After a quick perusal of FAR Part 61.57, I'd have to say no, it doesn't count. The commercial multi checkride doesn't count as an instrument proficiency check, with only two approaches, probably niether of them circling, and probably no holding (although it may have under the old instrument PTS.) Now there are a certain set of tasks that have to be accomplished before an IPC can be signed off, and, unless I'm mistaken, it didn't used to be that way.

But then again, there could be some loophole somewhere that I'm not aware of... You know how those FARs can be.

-Goose

 

[carlos]

Did he sign off on an IPC in your logbook? Or did you complete six approaches and a hold? If not, then your instrument currency was not reset.

 

[mocaman]

Yeah it was commercial multi, we did not do all that is required to maintain currency. I thought it sounded strange when he told me " this checkride resets my instrument currency". All we did was one VOR approach...

 

[mocaman]

No, he did not sign off an IPC in my logbook.

 

[NW_Pilot]

Did you add your multi instrument rating also, If so you where judged on your flying performance by a DE for an additional instrument rating for multi engine. Should reset the currency.

 

[mocaman]

NW Pilot, I had a commercial, instrument, single before the checkride. I left with an "Airplane Single and Multiengine Land Instrument Airplane". I guess what you said is what happened. I thought I was just getting a "multi rating", but I did do a few approaches under the hood in training and one approach while under the hood on the checkride. This is confusing...

 

[Pilot Doc]

A checkride resets your BFR clock even though you received no flight instruction. Same things shoud hold for instrument currency if you acquired new instrument privileges, you should be reset.

 

[mocaman]

Good point

 

[NW_Pilot]

A checkride resets your BFR clock even though you received no flight instruction. Same things shoud hold for instrument currency if you acquired new instrument privileges, you should be reset.

Thats what I basically ment to say!

 

[carlos]

Posted hastily., what Pilot Doc mentions, of course, is true. The Instrument rating on your ME commercial resets the IFR currencey clock.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

A checkride resets your BFR clock even though you received no flight instruction. Same things shoud hold for instrument currency if you acquired new instrument privileges, you should be reset.

A checkride does not automatically reset the FR clock. For instance, a CFI, CFII or MEI checkride will not reset your FR.

A multi-comm-instrument ride will reset the FR clock, but you can't lump this into being instrument current.

Chances are, the applicant flew several approaches (6 approaches, holding, tracking, etc.) with his instructor which in all probability allowed him to get his currency back anyway.

The checkride is NOT an IPC. The criteria for conducting an IPC is found at the beginning of the instrument rating PTS and consists of several things that one must accomplish and conmsist of many items not demonstrated during this particular ride.

Since the applicant already holds an instrument rating, it is NOT an instrument ride which would count as resetting the currency clock. He only added his instument privileges to a multiengine plane. The point of this is to demonstrate the ability to fly on instruments with one engine.

 

[nosehair]

A checkride resets your BFR clock even though you received no flight instruction. Same things shoud hold for instrument currency if you acquired new instrument privileges, you should be reset.

"Should" - there's that word again. You're using logic and reason. Not allowed when deciphering regulations - any regulations, not just FAR's.

The truth is in the specific words used in the reg.

The Flight Review reg uses words that allow other proficiency checks to substitute for the Review - the IPC does not. It uses the phrase "instrument proficiency check" which is defined in the instrument PTS.

The IPC used to be up to the instructor, much like the FR, but now it is defined in the PTS, so that the normal instrument proficiency demonstrated on a multi-engine check does not meet the requirement. The DE is probably out-of-date.

 

[CDHannah]

Ok, how about this one. I did a flight review for a PSEL w/ instrument privliages. The flight review went fine, but when it came time to do the IPC, I told the person that for an IPC, I require six approaches, intercepting and tracking, along with holds, and of course what is required by the PTS.

The person inquestion protested about the six approaches that he had never had to do that many approaches for an IPC (4 at the most). We looked in the logbok, and the last approaches logged occured two and a half years ago. I explained that, in the interest of safety, it would be best to do six approaches.

I looked in 61.57, the PTS, and I'm trying my best to interpret this question of how many approaches to accomplish. Anybody have any thoughts?

 

[avbug]

No specific number of approaches is required to be performed during the conduct of an instrument proficiency check. What is done is at the discretion of the instructor or check airman conducting the check, and attesting to the instrument proficiency of the person underoing the check.

You are required to have six approaches in six months to maintain currency...you are not required to have six approaches during the course of the IPC.

If you desire to get the six approaches, then good for you. You're making a smart decision. You can do more than six, too.

An IPC should generally include the same items that would be required on a checkride, though the person administering the IPC may elect to concentrate on specific areas such as maneuvering with an engine out for approaches and partial panel...which are things that most pilots don't do except during training.

The regulation, 14 CFR 61.57(d), only requires that a "representative number" of tasts from the practical test standards be administered, and the number of these tasks, and their type and appication, are at the discretion of the individual administering the check.

If you only performed one instrument approach during that check, it had better have been with one engine inoperative...and the examiner was pushing his luck.

This checkride may be used in place of a flight review, but will not cover your requirements for instrument proficiency unless you complete a representative number of tasks from the instrument rating PTS. If you've done this, you've met the requirement. No requirment exists for a logbook entry, though practically, you may have difficulty showing compliance without obtaining an entry stating that you passed.

In this case, your test was for instrument privileges in an airplane, specifically a multi engine airplane. You have been tested by an examiner for instrument privileges, and this will meet the requirement. The evidence is that you passed the check is that you have been issued a temporary airman certificate.

Personally, in such a situation, I ask the examiner for a signoff anyway. I amy not need it, and generally speaking over the years I've never needed an IPC or flight review because of the regulations under which I've operated and taken my checkrides. I ask for the signoffs anyway. The check airman, examiner, inspector, etc, always grumbles, and signs as requested.

In lieu of an IPC signoff in your logbook, you have your Form 8710 which will cite what was done for the ride and your status in meeting those standards (satisfactory), as well as the signature of the examiner attesting to the fact that you have met the standard. Always keep a copy. If anyone questions your accomplishment, this proof is indisputable.

Having said that, I'd strongly encourage you to go get further instruction and regular instrument practice and training in multi engine airplanes (and single, for that matter). While you may have met the technical requirements, (which should be irrelevant, because you ought to have done at least 6 approaches, holding, and tracking during your preparation for that practical test), but if the examiner only had you fly one approach, he was pushing his limits with respect to testing you on the bare minimum. Hopefully he also covered engin-out work on instruments, and other areas that pertain to your proficiency.

You can never get enough proficiency training, regardless of the regulation. Remember, the regulation sets a minimum standard. No law or regulation prohibits you from doing more, and doing it better. Good luck!

 

[waverider]

deleted

 

[midlifeflyer]

The regulation, 14 CFR 61.57(d), only requires that a "representative number" of tasts from the practical test standards be administered, and the number of these tasks, and their type and appication, are at the discretion of the individual administering the check.

Not since two IFR PTS revisions ago. When the FAA first added the "PC" tasks to the PTS, there was some disagreement about whether they applied to CFIIs administering the test or just to DPEs. As I recall, the FAA pretty much resolved the issue when the next revision came out - there was a lot of discussion about it at the time, especially about the inability to do a full IPC in an FTD since they are not (usually) certified for circling approaches.

The "representative number of tasks" (which, interestingly, 61.57(d) does =not= describe as discretionary - unlike the 61.56 flight review) are those described in the PC table in the PTS ("Required TASKs for instrument proficiency checks (PC) are also contained in these practical test standards."), at least as a minimum.

Other than that, Avbug is right - there is no minimum number of approaches - except the number that is needed to accomplish all of the PC tasks.

 

[bobs98tlr]

Mocaman- Don said the same thing to me as well after i did my multi. Understand that this is an Add on rating. You can now instrument and commercial stuff in the twin. It does NOT reset your BFR. You would have to ask him for the bfr sign off but then its required that you do 1 hour of ground and 1 hour of flight and on my check ride i didnt get to an hour on either one of them. I also dont believe it counts as an IPC, however im going to look that up so i know for myself as well.