Instructors - What Do You Require For A BFR?

[User546]

I have to give a BFR this weekend, and I was curious what maneuvers you typically make the person do to show proficiency, and also what subject areas do you cover on the ground with them prior to the flight?

Thanks in advance for all your help!

 

[Northern Lights]

I would hit up TFR's pretty hard. A lot of guys are still clueless about those. Stress the importance of checking NOTAMs and talking to FSS to prevent flying anywhere thaty they shouldn't be.

In flight -- Aeronautical Decision Making (ADM) is big with the FAA these days. Give them a short A to B flight, but have them deal with various things along the way such as weather, emergencies etc. and see how they deal with the situation.

Crosswind takeoffs and landings

It all kind of depends on what kind of pilot they are. It doesn't hurt to throw some BAIF and an instrument approach in there.

 

[Goose Egg]

Come to think of it, I haven't ever given a BFR. And it's cool if I never do.

-Goose

 

[hotwings402]

Know these questions/answers

TFRs big time, how do you get them? Should you get them every flight? Runway incursions. Maintence regs if its a owner operated airplane. Airspace. Currency regs.

As far a flying....Depends on the pilot, I taylor the BFR to the type of flying they do. I'm not going to make a guy that flies his cub around the pattern twice a week do vor tracking.

At a minimum I do takeoffs/landings go arounds, engine out. (I do those 4 things most of the hour) I find that if you can takeoff and land the plane safely and are coordinated there is no need to be doing slow flight and stalls etc for half an hour. Now lets also say that my last two BFRs were in tailwheel airplanes, so I like to see MANY TO and landings before I let them loose.

 

[sbav8r]

We had some clown do an aileron roll in the middle of a BFR. He had the controls and when the instrucor was grabbing the hood in the back seat the guy rolled it. By the time the instructor reacted, they were going through inverted. This same guy is always boasting about how he was number 40 in the world in the unlimited category, yet during emergency procedures he demonstrated very poor energy management. I have no problems going out and doing aerobatics in the Waco or anything else that is built for it; however, a 172 is not a great platform for any aerobatics, no matter how docile the maneuvers. I would have been pissed if someone did that to me.

 

[bobbysamd]

Flight reveiw

I have to give a BFR this weekend, and I was curious what maneuvers you typically make the person do to show proficiency, and also what subject areas do you cover on the ground with them prior to the flight?

You want to tailor a flight review to the person's individual needs. For example, if the person is primarily a cross-country, $100 hamburger pilot you might stress flight planning, wx and NOTAM procurement, diversions, emergencies, lost procedures and night flying. In any flight review, I would still cover basic airwork and takeoffs and landings. You could have the person plan a cross-country, go on it for a while, work on the x-c items, and then do airwork, returning to the airport for takeoffs and landings.

Good ground subjects for any flight review would include airspace, including but definitely not limited to TFRs, prohibited airspace, MOAs and NOTAMs shutting down airspace. Runway incursions are a big ATC issue, so I would go over runway markings, etc.

Hope that helps some more.

 

[User546]

Thanks guys for all the great input!

This particular person is an older gentleman, he owns a Mooney, and rarely does any cross countries.

Typically just takes friends up, and flies around the area. Doesn't fly but a 3-5 hours a month, and lives out of town so he doesnt go flying much anymore.

I've flown with him probably four or five times before, including a cross country, to evaluate him at his request, and to bring him back up to standards in his lacking areas.

All the questions I ask him he's typically real quick and confident to answer, and I've spent a lot of attention to his judgement and safety of flight skills - which he does real well with.

With that information, any other ideas of some areas to work towards in addition to the above?

 

[bobbysamd]

Mooney BFR

I would work the gentleman heavily on stalls and MCAS. Mooneys are very slick aircraft with stall characteristics that are unlike Cessna and Piper and are more like a Bonanza. Enter a stall the least bit uncoordinated and the airplane will break sharply and will want to enter a spin. It is not fun. Ensure that he is using rudder and not aileron to pick up a wing that is dropping. Work him on stalls for his benefit but also for yours, to satisfy yourself that he is safe.

Work him on decent planning. Once again, very much unlike Cessna and Piper, you really have to plan a decent in a Mooney because they are so slick. You also might run the emergency gear extension procedure with him, and discuss runaway prop procedures, etc.

Finally, do a lot of takeoffs and landings. Give him a no-flap landing. Mooneys really require speed management and advance planning in the pattern. If you don't have a well-stablized final in a Mooney (which, of course, especially in a Mooney, should be preceded by a good base, which be preceded by a good downwind, etc.), it will lead to all kinds of bad things. Also, it's easy to hit a tailcone in a Mooney during landings.

Good luck with giving this BFR.

 

[FN FAL]

...$300.00 and the BFR pilot's full attention for the complete day.

 

[greygoose]

One thing that I recommend is that take a little notepad with and mark down what man's they do and how much they deviate off. Have the student sign to it when done, because in all reality 2 yrs down the road are you going to remember how well that student performed if you were approached by the FAA? Even though the possibility of the FAA coming to talk to you is rare to slim, but you never know when that student will get in a accident and your signature is the last one in the logbook.

 

[TDTURBO]

...$300.00 and the BFR pilot's full attention for the complete day.

I wouldn't hesitate paying you 300 for a BFR since we do the same kind of flying. Long x-countries in most wx in a single engine Cessna, do you have a current CFI ticket? Where are you from Chicago?

PM me if you want to .

 

[FN FAL]

because in all reality 2 yrs down the road are you going to remember how well that student performed if you were approached by the FAA? Even though the possibility of the FAA coming to talk to you is rare to slim, but you never know when that student will get in a accident and your signature is the last one in the logbook.

One of my BFR signoffs crashed and burned...his accident never even netted me a phone call from the feds.

Although him and his three passengers survived the crash, there were inuries and the plane exploded. He made some bad decisions one day and it had nothing to do with his flight review.

 

[FN FAL]

I wouldn't hesitate paying you 300 for a BFR since we do the same kind of flying. Long x-countries in most wx in a single engine Cessna, do you have a current CFI ticket? Where are you from Chicago?

PM me if you want to .

No...I'm near Milwaukee. Currently I'm not prepared to do a 300.00 BFR or ICC, but the thought has come to mind to get set up to do so.

Every two years, my FIRC guy keeps beating on us about flight instructor professionalism and what we should charge for our time and what we should provide as a service. He also points out that the current single engine new aircraft purchaser is spending upwards of half a million on a new plane and it aint for pleasure flying.

Another statistic, which is sad, but the old timers who provided great flight instruction are dwindling. These guys have been the foundation of flight instruction for as long as there have been local 'professional' flight instructors. I think we have all seen, or are about to see one of these local 'icons' leave the market soon and they will sorely be missed.

Back on subject...no knocking on the esteemed CFI who has been serving the aviation community for many decades or the new CFI that has recently gotten out of flight school, but I believe there is a market in flight instruction from people who have college degrees, experience and the gift...and to make a good living at working with the new era of GA pilots. Whether it be full or part time.

 

[TDTURBO]

No...I'm near Milwaukee. Currently I'm not prepared to do a 300.00 BFR or ICC, but the thought has come to mind to get set up to do so.

Every two years, my FIRC guy keeps beating on us about flight instructor professionalism and what we should charge for our time and what we should provide as a service. He also points out that the current single engine new aircraft purchaser is spending upwards of half a million on a new plane and it aint for pleasure flying.

Another statistic, which is sad, but the old timers who provided great flight instruction are dwindling. These guys have been the foundation of flight instruction for as long as there have been local 'professional' flight instructors. I think we have all seen, or are about to see one of these local 'icons' leave the market soon and they will sorely be missed.

Back on subject...no knocking on the esteemed CFI who has been serving the aviation community for many decades or the new CFI that has recently gotten out of flight school, but I believe there is a market in flight instruction from people who have college degrees, experience and the gift...and to make a good living at working with the new era of GA pilots. Whether it be full or part time.

You are correct, I never go with a 2 hundred hr wonder, I always get instruction from high time guys flying what I fly and in the same conditions and mission profiles. I think you are right on with a new niche that has yet to take off with owner pilots looking for advanced recurrent training, I think you would be perfect for me.


Milwaukee is 25 minutes from me, we could even do something on the side, you don't even have to sign my logbook, I just want to fly with a guy of your particular experience and pay you for it. Forget the paperwork, lets go up and have some fun!

 

[FN FAL]

You are correct, I never go with a 2 hundred hr wonder, I always get instruction from high time guys flying what I fly and in the same conditions and mission profiles. I think you are right on with a new niche that has yet to take off with owner pilots looking for advanced recurrent training, I think you would be perfect for me.


Milwaukee is 25 minutes from me, we could even do something on the side, you don't even have to sign my logbook, I just want to fly with a guy of your particular experience and pay you for it. Forget the paperwork, lets go up and have some fun!

That is cool. I'm off every weekend and every tues and thursday.

 

[PC12Cowboy]

User,
most of the older pilots are not comfortable doing stalls...and the mooney can be a real handful in the stall regime...and unless youve been shown with a very experienced mooney instructor how to do stalls...then concentrate on how to avoid getting into that position.
Most of the older guys cut thier teeth on the old airspace.and FSS stuff....help them understand how to comply with 91.103 and how to get tfr's....ground time you can show them how to get weather online and al that is offerds from duat/duats.
always work on thier performance landings....short soft and crosswinds
and are you in utah??? review mountain flying and density altitude stuff as well
and always have fun with ...just be safe too.....
Cowboy


p.s. we all love closer pics of the mormon girls representin

 

[TDTURBO]

That is cool. I'm off every weekend and every tues and thursday.

FN,

I am also off on tueday morning until 4pm and thursday all day and weekends.

Lets set it up!