Information on ASA?

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

Did you upgrade me to a "Major" General? Thanks. Anyways... I know that you have heard these things from "high ups" or the union guys, but ask them how they can get around our contract? Remember, "A contract is a contract." I am not trying to be mean or telling you that it will never happen, but it really is unlikely due to the fact that it is NOT subject to Force Mejeur---otherwise Delta would have already done it. It all has to be negotiated, and I highly doubt our MEC would snub our 1060 pilots out on the street. But, there really is a chance for ASA pilots to EVENTUALLY come on over. For example, a bank holding the remaining shares of UAL was cleared by the IRS to sell the remaining employee stocks--reducing the employee's share---this being called the sunset provision. When that is done, the employees cannot veto asset sales at United. The board members already stated the need to close hubs in LAX, IAD, and DEN---along with selling the ASIAN Routes and NRT hub. Delta's CFO Michele Burns has stated that we are interested in buying that, and that we had BORROWING POWER---she said that. So, if we do---we will probably buy some cheap 777's (hopefully NOT UAL's) and expand----this all happening after the War is over.
AA surely cannot afford it, and NW can't get it because it would be a monopoly. IF this all happens---you can count on some furloughs returning, and eventually people will come back, and then eventually hiring in two or three years. That really isn't a long time from now. There is a big rumor out there (circulating throughout the ATL crew lounge and CPO) that we might have up to 600 retirements on May 1st alone---a lot due to the USAir pension problems. Even if half of those numbers come true---it would be huge for everyone. Things would start to move quickly if that really happened. The Last ATL Council 44 Roar news letter
had a large article in it about how Comair wouldn't help our furloughs and ASA did--and about 4500 Delta pilots in ATL got that news letter. There is a really good chance that when hiring begins again---a lot of ASA pilots will get that interview. Then it is up to them. A little less than 5 years ago I was flying an E-120 too. The 757 is a lot smoother---and easier to land trust me.


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[Russ]

Genlee
You lost the war didn't you? but thats another discussion.

Many see the end of employee ownership at UA as actually helping UA survive. I know it doesn't fit into you little grand scheme of things, don't count UA out yet.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,

"Gen Lee" refers to the car in Dukes of Hazard---not the Southern General.

United employees losing the veto rights will help United sell it's assets. I have heard from Chief Pilots that United wanted to sell Delta the LHR routes for $1billion---and we said we would take them for $500 million---and no deal. Apparently there are Delta representatives flying on UAL around the Asian routes looking at each one carefully---and they are definitely up for sale. But, this might be the thing that gives UAL the money it needs to get over this hump, and survive in the end....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sleepy]

In order to survive, DAL needs U or AAA to fail quickly. Why would DAL do anything to help either one survive? Why would DAL want to bring in the merger problems between DALPA and UALPA (it would be fun to watch though)? Couldn't they just wait for U to go Ch. 7, then buy what they want in the liquidation (without the U pilots)? Just wondering?

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

No one really knows if UAL will go Chap 7 (it has a chance though), but we do know that it will be a smaller airline atleast. Their board of directors have stated that they would like to close some bases and sell the Asian routes. Apparently they offered the LHR slots to Delta---knowing that we actually could buy them---but the price was way too high--$1billion---and we offered $500 million. I guess Leo figured that we possibly could get "Open skies" with England in the next few years, and that $1 billion was too high to pay for that type of an investment. ($500 mill isn't?) But, apparently they are looking at the Asian routes and NRT hub right now. If we took some of their 777's while they are still alive (not in Chap 7)---then we would probably have to take some of their pilots (only the bare minimum who actually fly the same number of 777's) and probably mix them into the senority---but not at DOH---atleast that isn't what we did with the Pan Am guys when we bought their routes. (maybe 1-10 type mix) Would that pi$$ off our furloughs? You bet. That is why Dalpa would pressure Delta to buy other cheap ones out on the market. Also, we will be PARKING our MD-11's, and we still have the sims etc---so we could use them until we found cheaper 777's out there. You would think that if United did sell the routes, they might not have a need for so many 777's or 747-400's. Well, they might give them back to the lessors, and then Delta might swoop in. I am sure they are looking at that. I am not naive enough to think that Delta wouldn't do something to "please us." It really is business that they are concerned with---and I know that. Those UAL pilots that would come over would be SUPER SENIOR---and they would retire soon. Now, don't get me wrong----this would help United out by giving them needed cash to get them through the next couple "revenue trigger" posts that they have to have with the banks. Overall, I think we all know that UAL will not be AS BIG as they once were, and UAL doesn't really compete much with Delta. It will be interesting.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Generallee forgot to mention that the article in roar was filled with lies and half truths. I have lost all respect for the delta pilot leadership. I had a conversation with JC Lawson recently about this. He ask Burgey to retract the lies, and Burgey just blew him off and said "politics can be hell, can't they?" The Delta pilot leaders are pulling their whole group down a very ugly path. It is sad that they had to resort to dishonest, under handed politics to take the attention off their inability to protect the jobs of the pilots they represent.

 

[General Lee]

Afellowaviator,

Come on now, what you think are lies could actually be truths. I am sure Lawson thinks he is right and Buergey thinks he is. Did Lawson want us to drop scope and let you have unlimited 70 seaters and possible 90 seaters? Did he ask this when our guy was asking about HELPING our 1000 or so furloughs? There is a time and place to argue about scope, but not by using 1000 furloughed pilots as pawns. So, did he bring this up when our guys were in NEED, just like when you were in NEED of ALPA's cash when you were striking? These are the basic questions, and I don't think Lawson or you could answer them with a straight face. We cannot give up scope, or we would fade away with cheaper pilots (salaries....) taking the place of high ticket jobs. Look in your own backyard---Chit-talk took your Florida flying because they cost less. Don't slam us---take a look in the mirror. And while you're at it---take a look at all of our guys out of work while you hire big time off of the street. It is a shame. That Roar article had it right.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Darnit General,

I keep forgetting about the "cash" we got while on strike. It is because of that that we should just bend over, and over, and over. Our pilots are just as important to Mr. Lawson as yours are to Burgey.His job is to represent OUR pilots.

It was a total political move. The way they announced to your pilots weeks before they even contacted our MEC to stir things up was no accident. Burgey is a snake in the grass. He is a liar, plain and simple. You guys should be smart enough to see what he was doing. He did all this to take the heat off himself for his failure to protect your jobs. Despicable, just despicable.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Afellowaviator,

There is a time and place to argue about scope, but not by using 1000 furloughed pilots as pawns. So, did he bring this up when our guys were in NEED,

We cannot give up scope, or we would fade away with cheaper pilots (salaries....) taking the place of high ticket jobs. Look in your own backyard---Chit-talk took your Florida flying because they cost less. Don't slam us---take a look in the mirror.
Bye Bye--General Lee

Gen Lee: There is a time to talk scope, it was several years ago and the need is even more pressing now.

The two are related. With modifications to scope there possibly could be more airplanes available to bring your pilots back to. The flying going to Chautauqua is Delta domestic flying. It also has an effect on you.

What your MEC refuses to accept is that all of us who perform Delta flying are in this together. Your and mine revenue seat miles are the same product. We need system wide scope and we need the Delta Connection MEC's participation in fixing the problem, together.

Buergey is very smart and I think he has integrity, but, he sees Connection representatives as the enemy, not as partners. We wanted to discuss items of mutual concern, he wanted to dictate to us. Working together involves compromise & looking for mutually beneficial solutions.

Regards,
~~~^~~~

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

I agree with you, you are not our enemy, especially in times like these. We probably do need to work together---there, I said it. But, what will we do with our 1060 pilots out? What is the plan? Those of us left at mainline are going to be helping management---probably giving back some pay etc---so we are looking forward too. But what about the pilots on the street? Please tell me what you would do.

Bye Bye--General Lee