Information on ASA?

[sabreliner]

If I may say so, I think it rather silly that we hired anyone off the street with DAL guys on furlough. I think we should all be working to "keep it in the family."

I'm sure that when we resume hiring, we'll hire more DAL guys. However, I hope a little comes our way when things turn around.

 

[btflyer2]

ATL EMB crews finishing jet training?

ASApuppy, or anyone in training or knowledgeable, know if the ATL EMB crews are still in retraining, or are they finished ? And has anyone heard when the DFW crews will start retraining?

Thanks.

 

[sabreliner]

The ATL displacements are not yet done. The final people will have new position awards on the May Awards. These awards should be out sometime this week. They will then have to go to training, which will probably take at least two months or more.

The DFW crews are currently slowly being retrained, but our base will be active at least thru August. Some moreof the ATL guys were recently displaced out to DFW effective May 1st. If the retirements stay on schedule (a very big if) then the last of the DFW EM2 crews should go to training around the end of August begining of September. This will have them trained aruond the end of October.

That all assumes of course that the retirements stay on schedule. We'll see. Check back mid summer to see how we are doing.

 

[sleepy]

I was at FSI today and we (ASA) are definetly interviewing for the pool. They were doing 6 a day. They were just regular applicants, not from any special program.

We are short on pilots in some areas, but training is backed up due to the retraining of E-120 pilots. The E-120 will be out of ATL on May 3rd.

There is talk of a new aircraft type to replace the CR7. They are looking at the B-717 and A-319. For BGen Lee, I know all about your scope, but that is what they are looking at. Could get interesting.

 

[MetroSheriff]

They are looking at the B-717 and A-319. For BGen Lee, I know all about your scope, but that is what they are looking at. Could get interesting.

"They" being who??? The A319 has been a running vrew room joke for quite some time.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

ASA is not looking at replacing the 700.

 

[sabreliner]

What a tool.

717's or A319's. Yeah, right.

Besides, it'd do us all better to have them on the mainline property than on ours anyway.

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

No, I am not getting into a pissing contest with you. I know people are saying a lot of things, and nothing is certain. But, you as well as I know that our PWA will not allow anything other than the 57 70 seaters for DCI---unless something is negotiated. I doubt that with 1060 pilots out on the street, any DCI carrier will get anything other than the 57 heavy RJ's. But, you have an advantage over your Comair brothers when it comes to eventually flying something bigger than the 70 seater in the Delta family. Our VP of Flt Ops--Joe Kolshack---is said to be very receptive to our guys asking about mainline CRJ70's for the furloughs. He said that they really would like more. I think Dalpa could negotiate a reasonable rate that Delta would agree to. We know that we aren't getting any new aircraft for a couple years, but have 1060 guys out. The RJ's are the only way to help them get back in the cockpit. The A318/A319 rumor is a good one because Fred Reid brought the A320 and A340 to Lufthansa when he headed that corporation. But, I have heard that the 737-600 is the leading candidate because Delta wants to have one common type rating for the 737-600, 737-800, 757/767 (with new modified cockpits at $2mil each), 767-400, and 777. That would save a lot on training, and the FAA has supposedly already approved it for Delta. That is all I have on that. But remember Sleepy---you are closer than you think to that Delta 757 if you ever want to go fly it---that is for sure.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sleepy]

Re: What a tool.

717's or A319's. Yeah, right.

Besides, it'd do us all better to have them on the mainline property than on ours anyway.

Why, you don't think there will be any mainline jobs left that are any better do you?

I'm am just passing along information from several well placed and independent sources from the GO and the union. Maybe it won't happen, who knows. Remember, a bird in hand......

 

[sleepy]

Sleepy,

No, I am not getting into a pissing contest with you. I know people are saying a lot of things, and nothing is certain. But, you as well as I know that our PWA will not allow anything other than the 57 70 seaters for DCI---unless something is negotiated. I doubt that with 1060 pilots out on the street, any DCI carrier will get anything other than the 57 heavy RJ's. But, you have an advantage over your Comair brothers when it comes to eventually flying something bigger than the 70 seater in the Delta family. Our VP of Flt Ops--Joe Kolshack---is said to be very receptive to our guys asking about mainline CRJ70's for the furloughs. He said that they really would like more. I think Dalpa could negotiate a reasonable rate that Delta would agree to. We know that we aren't getting any new aircraft for a couple years, but have 1060 guys out. The RJ's are the only way to help them get back in the cockpit. The A318/A319 rumor is a good one because Fred Reid brought the A320 and A340 to Lufthansa when he headed that corporation. But, I have heard that the 737-600 is the leading candidate because Delta wants to have one common type rating for the 737-600, 737-800, 757/767 (with new modified cockpits at $2mil each), 767-400, and 777. That would save a lot on training, and the FAA has supposedly already approved it for Delta. That is all I have on that. But remember Sleepy---you are closer than you think to that Delta 757 if you ever want to go fly it---that is for sure.

Bye Bye---General Lee

I hear you MGen Lee, and I am not trying to stir the pot. I have gotten this info from several different (good) sources over the last few weeks, and would not pass it along if it was just something I heard in the lounge. I don't know what the future holds, but I know that I (and most ASA pilots for that matter) will never see a DAL 757, hell, your furloughed guys won't even be back for several years. Then there will be all of the pilots from the liquidated U and AAA ahead of us in line. Oh, and all of the Desert Storm II vets.

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

Did you upgrade me to a "Major" General? Thanks. Anyways... I know that you have heard these things from "high ups" or the union guys, but ask them how they can get around our contract? Remember, "A contract is a contract." I am not trying to be mean or telling you that it will never happen, but it really is unlikely due to the fact that it is NOT subject to Force Mejeur---otherwise Delta would have already done it. It all has to be negotiated, and I highly doubt our MEC would snub our 1060 pilots out on the street. But, there really is a chance for ASA pilots to EVENTUALLY come on over. For example, a bank holding the remaining shares of UAL was cleared by the IRS to sell the remaining employee stocks--reducing the employee's share---this being called the sunset provision. When that is done, the employees cannot veto asset sales at United. The board members already stated the need to close hubs in LAX, IAD, and DEN---along with selling the ASIAN Routes and NRT hub. Delta's CFO Michele Burns has stated that we are interested in buying that, and that we had BORROWING POWER---she said that. So, if we do---we will probably buy some cheap 777's (hopefully NOT UAL's) and expand----this all happening after the War is over.
AA surely cannot afford it, and NW can't get it because it would be a monopoly. IF this all happens---you can count on some furloughs returning, and eventually people will come back, and then eventually hiring in two or three years. That really isn't a long time from now. There is a big rumor out there (circulating throughout the ATL crew lounge and CPO) that we might have up to 600 retirements on May 1st alone---a lot due to the USAir pension problems. Even if half of those numbers come true---it would be huge for everyone. Things would start to move quickly if that really happened. The Last ATL Council 44 Roar news letter
had a large article in it about how Comair wouldn't help our furloughs and ASA did--and about 4500 Delta pilots in ATL got that news letter. There is a really good chance that when hiring begins again---a lot of ASA pilots will get that interview. Then it is up to them. A little less than 5 years ago I was flying an E-120 too. The 757 is a lot smoother---and easier to land trust me.


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[Russ]

Genlee
You lost the war didn't you? but thats another discussion.

Many see the end of employee ownership at UA as actually helping UA survive. I know it doesn't fit into you little grand scheme of things, don't count UA out yet.

 

[General Lee]

Russ,

"Gen Lee" refers to the car in Dukes of Hazard---not the Southern General.

United employees losing the veto rights will help United sell it's assets. I have heard from Chief Pilots that United wanted to sell Delta the LHR routes for $1billion---and we said we would take them for $500 million---and no deal. Apparently there are Delta representatives flying on UAL around the Asian routes looking at each one carefully---and they are definitely up for sale. But, this might be the thing that gives UAL the money it needs to get over this hump, and survive in the end....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sleepy]

In order to survive, DAL needs U or AAA to fail quickly. Why would DAL do anything to help either one survive? Why would DAL want to bring in the merger problems between DALPA and UALPA (it would be fun to watch though)? Couldn't they just wait for U to go Ch. 7, then buy what they want in the liquidation (without the U pilots)? Just wondering?

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

No one really knows if UAL will go Chap 7 (it has a chance though), but we do know that it will be a smaller airline atleast. Their board of directors have stated that they would like to close some bases and sell the Asian routes. Apparently they offered the LHR slots to Delta---knowing that we actually could buy them---but the price was way too high--$1billion---and we offered $500 million. I guess Leo figured that we possibly could get "Open skies" with England in the next few years, and that $1 billion was too high to pay for that type of an investment. ($500 mill isn't?) But, apparently they are looking at the Asian routes and NRT hub right now. If we took some of their 777's while they are still alive (not in Chap 7)---then we would probably have to take some of their pilots (only the bare minimum who actually fly the same number of 777's) and probably mix them into the senority---but not at DOH---atleast that isn't what we did with the Pan Am guys when we bought their routes. (maybe 1-10 type mix) Would that pi$$ off our furloughs? You bet. That is why Dalpa would pressure Delta to buy other cheap ones out on the market. Also, we will be PARKING our MD-11's, and we still have the sims etc---so we could use them until we found cheaper 777's out there. You would think that if United did sell the routes, they might not have a need for so many 777's or 747-400's. Well, they might give them back to the lessors, and then Delta might swoop in. I am sure they are looking at that. I am not naive enough to think that Delta wouldn't do something to "please us." It really is business that they are concerned with---and I know that. Those UAL pilots that would come over would be SUPER SENIOR---and they would retire soon. Now, don't get me wrong----this would help United out by giving them needed cash to get them through the next couple "revenue trigger" posts that they have to have with the banks. Overall, I think we all know that UAL will not be AS BIG as they once were, and UAL doesn't really compete much with Delta. It will be interesting.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Generallee forgot to mention that the article in roar was filled with lies and half truths. I have lost all respect for the delta pilot leadership. I had a conversation with JC Lawson recently about this. He ask Burgey to retract the lies, and Burgey just blew him off and said "politics can be hell, can't they?" The Delta pilot leaders are pulling their whole group down a very ugly path. It is sad that they had to resort to dishonest, under handed politics to take the attention off their inability to protect the jobs of the pilots they represent.

 

[General Lee]

Afellowaviator,

Come on now, what you think are lies could actually be truths. I am sure Lawson thinks he is right and Buergey thinks he is. Did Lawson want us to drop scope and let you have unlimited 70 seaters and possible 90 seaters? Did he ask this when our guy was asking about HELPING our 1000 or so furloughs? There is a time and place to argue about scope, but not by using 1000 furloughed pilots as pawns. So, did he bring this up when our guys were in NEED, just like when you were in NEED of ALPA's cash when you were striking? These are the basic questions, and I don't think Lawson or you could answer them with a straight face. We cannot give up scope, or we would fade away with cheaper pilots (salaries....) taking the place of high ticket jobs. Look in your own backyard---Chit-talk took your Florida flying because they cost less. Don't slam us---take a look in the mirror. And while you're at it---take a look at all of our guys out of work while you hire big time off of the street. It is a shame. That Roar article had it right.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Darnit General,

I keep forgetting about the "cash" we got while on strike. It is because of that that we should just bend over, and over, and over. Our pilots are just as important to Mr. Lawson as yours are to Burgey.His job is to represent OUR pilots.

It was a total political move. The way they announced to your pilots weeks before they even contacted our MEC to stir things up was no accident. Burgey is a snake in the grass. He is a liar, plain and simple. You guys should be smart enough to see what he was doing. He did all this to take the heat off himself for his failure to protect your jobs. Despicable, just despicable.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Afellowaviator,

There is a time and place to argue about scope, but not by using 1000 furloughed pilots as pawns. So, did he bring this up when our guys were in NEED,

We cannot give up scope, or we would fade away with cheaper pilots (salaries....) taking the place of high ticket jobs. Look in your own backyard---Chit-talk took your Florida flying because they cost less. Don't slam us---take a look in the mirror.
Bye Bye--General Lee

Gen Lee: There is a time to talk scope, it was several years ago and the need is even more pressing now.

The two are related. With modifications to scope there possibly could be more airplanes available to bring your pilots back to. The flying going to Chautauqua is Delta domestic flying. It also has an effect on you.

What your MEC refuses to accept is that all of us who perform Delta flying are in this together. Your and mine revenue seat miles are the same product. We need system wide scope and we need the Delta Connection MEC's participation in fixing the problem, together.

Buergey is very smart and I think he has integrity, but, he sees Connection representatives as the enemy, not as partners. We wanted to discuss items of mutual concern, he wanted to dictate to us. Working together involves compromise & looking for mutually beneficial solutions.

Regards,
~~~^~~~

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

I agree with you, you are not our enemy, especially in times like these. We probably do need to work together---there, I said it. But, what will we do with our 1060 pilots out? What is the plan? Those of us left at mainline are going to be helping management---probably giving back some pay etc---so we are looking forward too. But what about the pilots on the street? Please tell me what you would do.

Bye Bye--General Lee