Informal poll for the IR's: do you fly single piston in IMC?

[A Squared]

(incidentally, why would anyone want to bludgeon a horse to death?).

Because they have a big stick, there's a horse hanging around, and they want the exercise.

 

[nosehair]

Because they have a big stick, there's a horse hanging around, and they want the exercise.

Best response of the day !

Here's how I see it:

If you want to be 100% safe, Don't fly.

If you are willing to take a little risk, fly only when there are no clouds anywhere in the sky.

If you want to take some more risk, fly when there are a few clouds in the sky.

If you are willing to take some more risk, fly when there are some more clouds in the sky....

...and so on....

You are the one who asseses the risk and makes the call. Use the information here and everywhere you can find information to help with the management of the risk, but you are taking a risk everytime you fly; single, multi, VFR, IFR, it's all about the risk.

 

[JAFI]

I believe that this horse is neither dead nor tired (incidentally, why would anyone want to bludgeon a horse to death?).

I always thought the phrase "like beating a dead horse" was a worthless act. Let's see what the internet search function turns up.

Acording to Wikipedia: "Rather, "beating a dead horse" is about the futility of one's complaints or actions"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_a_dead_horse

If you read this site enough, topics seem to return on some cycle of time. Maybe it is when a new group of students get to that part of their text book or the homework assignment they do not want to spend any time on.

I agree with Nosehair. It is about risk, and how much you care to accept (the risk). Of course you can eat tofu burgers all your life to avoid the risk (of what ever vegertarians are concerned about) and get killed in a car accident by a drunk driver.

I think the key is understanding the risk and the results if/when Murphy's Law happens.

JAFI

 

[avbug]

It is not about the risk. It's about finding and eliminating the risk. A risk is only a hazard until you put it in play. Either don't put it in play, or open the door such that the risk is no longer a risk. Seek and eliminate hazards every second of every flight. Risk elimination isn't a one time effort; it's a process that never ends. Just like looking for traffic.

 

[JAFI]

Avbug, I agree with some qualification. My thoughts:

A hole in a street is a hazard. We can drive down the street and avoid the hazard (the hole) to minimize the risk to the car. Or the inexperienced driver can drive too fast because many inexperenced drivers do not understand or foolishly accept the risk of driving too fast. An inexperienced (or IMHO a foolish) pilot can launch on a day filled with thunderstorms above his ability, knowledge, or in an aircraft not equiped with radar.

The question is how close can you get to "be safe". Unfortunally many pilots let their inexperience, desire to build flight time, or over inflated ego override the concern for the risk. Sometimes they run into trouble, sometimes not.

I guess to goes back to the old saying:

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.....

Or My favorate: It is better to be down here wishing you were up there than to be up there wishing you were down here.

Either way, Be safe.

JAFI

 

[BenWA]

Or My favorate: It is better to be down here wishing you were up there than to be up there wishing you were down here.

I like that one, I like that one.

 

[Lead Sled]

Avbug, I agree with some qualification. My thoughts:

A hole in a street is a hazard. We can drive down the street and avoid the hazard (the hole) to minimize the risk to the car. Or the inexperienced driver can drive too fast because many inexperienced drivers do not understand or foolishly accept the risk of driving too fast. An inexperienced (or IMHO a foolish) pilot can launch on a day filled with thunderstorms above his ability, knowledge, or in an aircraft not equipped with radar.

The question is how close can you get to "be safe". Unfortunately many pilots let their inexperience, desire to build flight time, or over inflated ego override the concern for the risk. Sometimes they run into trouble, sometimes not.

I guess to goes back to the old saying:

There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.....

Or My favorite: It is better to be down here wishing you were up there than to be up there wishing you were down here.

Either way, Be safe.

JAFI

In most cases, the bigger, the more "complex" the airplane, the easier they are to fly. The most demanding airplanes that most people will ever fly are light, piston-powered singles and twins. On paper, they are very capable machines; but at the same time, it’s all too easy to get in way over your head in them. In Part 25 transport category aircraft, you not only have all of the various systems and “backups”, but if you fly them buy the book, you also have built in performance guarantees.

The problem is that many relatively inexperienced pilots operate their aircraft in a way that that leaves them “exposed”. Lets assume that they have flown their SE airplane for hundreds of hours in "hard IFR" conditions and have never had a problem – does this mean that the operation is safe or are they merely lucky? What do you think? You can fail to plan for your eventual engine failure and place your trust in the laws of probability. But remember, if you choose this path, the danger doesn't’t go away, it merely lies in wait and when the inevitable occurs, the laws of physics (and gravity) take precedence. Like the guy said when St. Peter met him at the Pearly Gates, “It never killed me before!”

Personally, I believe that flying is essentially an exercise in “risk management” – you accept reasonable risks and try to eliminate or, at least, minimize the rest. Can you make flying totally risk free? Of course not, no more than you can make any other activity that we do risk free. However, if you go about it properly, flying is as about as benign an activity as you can possibly do. I have a framed photo of an old biplane hung up in the limbs of a tree. (You’ve probably seen the one I’m talking about, they’re in just about every pilot shop in the country.) The photo’s caption reads, “Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.” I agree with that statement.

There is perhaps nothing more dangerous than a “green” instrument pilot out in the weather. Passing a written and taking a checkride no more makes you an instrument pilot than buying a piano would make you a concert pianist. We all start out “green”, but as we gain more experience, hopefully, we become “seasoned”. That’s what experience does for you, you don’t manipulate the controls “better”, you just fly “smarter”. I think that this might explain why most of the old farts on this board tend to feel the flying is single in hard IFR isn't a particularly smart thing to do, while the less experienced types don't see anything particularly wrong with it.

LS

 

[avbug]

Can you make flying totally risk free?

One can certainly try with all one's might. I submit that when one stops trying with all ones might, every conscious moment, one is in a boatload of trouble.

That's bad.

 

[JAFI]

One can certainly try with all one's might. I submit that when one stops trying with all ones might, every conscious moment, one is in a boatload of trouble.

That's bad.

No argument there.

Maybe we should have a poll and ask "How many of your co-workers/friends have you buried when they:

1. Did not manage risk well.
2. Single engine IFR accident.
3. Multi-engine accident.
4. Automobile accident.

If nothing else to drive home the points we all have made. Just a thought.

JAFI

 

[mikecweb]

I took some risks tonight walking down the street with a black jacket on. I probably should have put a reflective vest on.
For the record I fly single pilot single-engine turbine IFR at night. Do I think I'm a daredevil? No. Do I think its stupid? No. Do I think there are risks? Yes. I risk my life taking a shower or eating meat or walking across the street without a reflective vest.
Also if you think I believe I have eliminated risk by flying a turbine single vs. a piston single your wrong.