Informal Discussion: Aircraft Cabin Cleaning

[mule]

who the heck are you, no linkable avatar, no post, etc, whats up with that?

I think he has been sent to the penalty box that nobody ever gets out of....

He was banned.

 

[Hagar17]

Iron Maiden RULES!!!

Time to go break out my "Number of the Beast LP"

Woh to you on earth and sea for the Devil sends the beast with rath for he know's the time is short...

Jeez.....let me help.

"WOE to you, Oh Earth and Sea, for the Devil sends the
beast with WRATH, because he knows the time is short...
Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the
beast for it is a human number, its number is Six hundred and
sixty six."

What the he!!, I'm on a roll.............................

I left alone my mind was blank
I needed time to think to get the memories from my mind

What did I see can I believe that what I saw
that night was real and not just fantasy

Just what I saw in my old dreams were they
reflections of my warped mind staring back at me

'Cos in my dream it's always there the evil face that twists my mind
and brings me to despair

The night was black was no use holding back
'Cos I just had to see was someone watching me
In the mist dark figures move and twist
Was this all for real or some kind of hell
666 the number of the beast
Hell and fire was spawned to be released

Torches blazed and sacred chants were praised
As they start to cry hands held to the sky
In the night the fires burning bright
The ritual has begun Satan's work is done
666 the number of the beast
Sacrifice is going on tonight

This can't go on I must inform the law
Can this still be real or just some crazy dream
But I feel drawn towards the evil chanting hordes
They seem to mesmerise me ... can't avoid their eyes
666 the number of the beast
666 the one for you and me

I'm coming back I will return
And I'll possess your body and I'll make you burn
I have the fire I have the force
I have the power to make my evil take it's course

 

[flyboyike]

OK so IntheShade got banned for asking two questions.

This website purports to be an Aviation website that is used to discuss the current aviation issues. Upon review I see nothing wrong with either of his questions in what they asked or how they were stated.

In fact I see them as a probe into deeper issues which the current pilot force are posed with while seeking direction on work rules and contracts.

It is obvious that there has been a tremendous backslide in work rules, retirement, compensation, expectations since the glory days of the 1970's. Somewhere along the way the pilot groups were either misled or lost the trail lain by thier forefather.

During this misive there has been a large splintering of work rules, PFT, and an almost clannish approach to protecting the sacred cow of each work group at the expense of another. We seem to be hit with a new justification for Low Cost Carrier pilot groups accepting new work rules over what is industry standard daily. B-Scale led to PFT. PFT to Pay-For-Flight-Time while working. As has been stated before: It's a race to the bottom.

In all this wholesale destruction there appears to be one pilot group who are endemic to the industry is JetBlue. I think this is what IntheShade was attempting to point out.

Traditionally pilot groups negotiate a Collective Bargain which the entire pilot group work under. At JetBlue every pilot signs an individual five year contract which he alone works under and contractually cannot discuss with another pilot. At the end of five years he must again renegotiate a contract. Talk about your independent operator. Call it anything you wish but it smells of union busting to me.

Cleaning the aircraft cabin seems like a small thing but JetBlue tries to emulate the SouthWest Airline quick turn system except: SouthWest allows its pilots to remain pilots and only task them with the operation of the airplane. In the Swiss Cheese theory of looking at the error chain by tasking the pilots with non-aircraft responsibility the holes only become larger. Interesting as it is, JetBlue pilots have again shifted the paradigm of what a pilot career is.

Even more irresponsible has been thier direct attempt to alter and seek relief of the FAR Flight Crew have worked under for over 60 years. The JetBlue pilot group went hand-in-hand with the company to seek a FAR relief from the 8 hour flight time regulation. This is a FAR that was put into effect to protect crewmembers and was hard fought for like many other work rules. To go directly to the FAA in an attempt to alter them is beyond belief.

It is my belief that every Regional Pilot deserves the same career and benefits as a Mainline Pilot. It shouldn't be because the Mainline Pilot allowed the top tier of the industry to sink to Regional Pilot standards and work rules.

IntheShade only tried to have a discussion on these isses. If Flightinfo.com can't provide the forum to do it then consider changing the name to FlightFaireyTales.com

 

[JP4user]

OK so IntheShade got banned for asking two questions.

This website purports to be an Aviation website that is used to discuss the current aviation issues. Upon review I see nothing wrong with either of his questions in what they asked or how they were stated.

In fact I see them as a probe into deeper issues which the current pilot force are posed with while seeking direction on work rules and contracts.

It is obvious that there has been a tremendous backslide in work rules, retirement, compensation, expectations since the glory days of the 1970's. Somewhere along the way the pilot groups were either misled or lost the trail lain by thier forefather.

During this misive there has been a large splintering of work rules, PFT, and an almost clannish approach to protecting the sacred cow of each work group at the expense of another. We seem to be hit with a new justification for Low Cost Carrier pilot groups accepting new work rules over what is industry standard daily. B-Scale led to PFT. PFT to Pay-For-Flight-Time while working. As has been stated before: It's a race to the bottom.

In all this wholesale destruction there appears to be one pilot group who are endemic to the industry is JetBlue. I think this is what IntheShade was attempting to point out.

Traditionally pilot groups negotiate a Collective Bargain which the entire pilot group work under. At JetBlue every pilot signs an individual five year contract which he alone works under and contractually cannot discuss with another pilot. At the end of five years he must again renegotiate a contract. Talk about your independent operator. Call it anything you wish but it smells of union busting to me.

Cleaning the aircraft cabin seems like a small thing but JetBlue tries to emulate the SouthWest Airline quick turn system except: SouthWest allows its pilots to remain pilots and only task them with the operation of the airplane. In the Swiss Cheese theory of looking at the error chain by tasking the pilots with non-aircraft responsibility the holes only become larger. Interesting as it is, JetBlue pilots have again shifted the paradigm of what a pilot career is.

Even more irresponsible has been thier direct attempt to alter and seek relief of the FAR Flight Crew have worked under for over 60 years. The JetBlue pilot group went hand-in-hand with the company to seek a FAR relief from the 8 hour flight time regulation. This is a FAR that was put into effect to protect crewmembers and was hard fought for like many other work rules. To go directly to the FAA in an attempt to alter them is beyond belief.

It is my belief that every Regional Pilot deserves the same career and benefits as a Mainline Pilot. It shouldn't be because the Mainline Pilot allowed the top tier of the industry to sink to Regional Pilot standards and work rules.

IntheShade only tried to have a discussion on these isses. If Flightinfo.com can't provide the forum to do it then consider changing the name to FlightFaireyTales.com

Good message Sir. Come on over and join the party at the B6hotel thread to get a look at the arrogance of some of the smurfs and their ilk. This deserves it's own thread initself. Be sure to mention the stellar rates for the 190.

 

[Blue Dude]

At JetBlue every pilot signs an individual five year contract which he alone works under and contractually cannot discuss with another pilot. At the end of five years he must again renegotiate a contract.

This is almost entirely false.

I pop in to this thread and it's just more of the same-old same-old. Why do I even bother?

Anyway, the whole cabin cleaning thing has been far and away the most overblown topic I have yet seen discussed re: JetBlue. It's really very simple. If, after your normal duties have been performed, you have the time and the willingness to cross some seat belts, you can. If not, you don't. That's really all there is to it. I do it maybe a third of the time. The rest of the time I'm either busy with something duty-related, I'm going for food for the crew, or maybe I just don't feel like it. It's never been a problem either way, not even a raised eyebrow or off hand comment. What a complete waste of bandwidth over nothing.

 

[flyboyike]

This is almost entirely false.

I pop in to this thread and it's just more of the same-old same-old. Why do I even bother?

Correct me then, if I am, in fact wrong. What is the actual process?

 

[oldxfr8dog]

OK so IntheShade got banned for asking two questions.

This website purports to be an Aviation website that is used to discuss the current aviation issues. Upon review I see nothing wrong with either of his questions in what they asked or how they were stated.

In fact I see them as a probe into deeper issues which the current pilot force are posed with while seeking direction on work rules and contracts.

It is obvious that there has been a tremendous backslide in work rules, retirement, compensation, expectations since the glory days of the 1970's. Somewhere along the way the pilot groups were either misled or lost the trail lain by thier forefather.

During this misive there has been a large splintering of work rules, PFT, and an almost clannish approach to protecting the sacred cow of each work group at the expense of another. We seem to be hit with a new justification for Low Cost Carrier pilot groups accepting new work rules over what is industry standard daily. B-Scale led to PFT. PFT to Pay-For-Flight-Time while working. As has been stated before: It's a race to the bottom.

In all this wholesale destruction there appears to be one pilot group who are endemic to the industry is JetBlue. I think this is what IntheShade was attempting to point out.

Traditionally pilot groups negotiate a Collective Bargain which the entire pilot group work under. At JetBlue every pilot signs an individual five year contract which he alone works under and contractually cannot discuss with another pilot. WRONG At the end of five years he must again renegotiate a contract. WRONGTalk about your independent operator. Call it anything you wish but it smells of union busting to me.

Cleaning the aircraft cabin seems like a small thing but JetBlue tries to emulate the SouthWest Airline quick turn system except: SouthWest allows its pilots to remain pilots and only task them with the operation of the airplane. The SWA pilots are busy running to get food for their crews during the 20 min turn. Are you going to call them waiters?In the Swiss Cheese theory of looking at the error chain by tasking the pilots with non-aircraft responsibility the holes only become larger. Interesting as it is, JetBlue pilots have again shifted the paradigm of what a pilot career is.

Even more irresponsible has been thier direct attempt to alter and seek relief of the FAR Flight Crew have worked under for over 60 years.The JetBlue pilot group went hand-in-hand with the company to seek a FAR relief from the 8 hour flight time regulation.You are COMPLETELY WRONG! As a matter of fact, the project has been scrapped due to negative pilot response. This is a FAR that was put into effect to protect crewmembers There are NO FARS put into effect to protect the crewmembers. This was pointed out to me by a Fed on a type-ride oral. They are ALL there to protect the passenger. Is it not FAR 121 legal to exceed 8 hours if no revenue is carried? and was hard fought for like many other work rules. To go directly to the FAA in an attempt to alter them is beyond belief.

It is my belief that every Regional Pilot deserves the same career and benefits as a Mainline Pilot. It shouldn't be because the Mainline Pilot allowed the top tier of the industry to sink to Regional Pilot standards and work rules.

IntheShade only tried to have a discussion on these isses. If Flightinfo.com can't provide the forum to do it then consider changing the name to FlightFaireyTales.com

I'm no JB cheerleader, but facts are facts.

 

[Blue Dude]

I was adding to the original post when you replied, sorry.

And no, I'm not going into it again. It's been rehashed again and again on this forum for years. Thus the rhetorical question: why do I even bother?

 

[Longhorn]

OK so IntheShade got banned for asking two questions.

This website purports to be an Aviation website that is used to discuss the current aviation issues. Upon review I see nothing wrong with either of his questions in what they asked or how they were stated.

In fact I see them as a probe into deeper issues which the current pilot force are posed with while seeking direction on work rules and contracts.

It is obvious that there has been a tremendous backslide in work rules, retirement, compensation, expectations since the glory days of the 1970's. Somewhere along the way the pilot groups were either misled or lost the trail lain by thier forefather.

During this misive there has been a large splintering of work rules, PFT, and an almost clannish approach to protecting the sacred cow of each work group at the expense of another. We seem to be hit with a new justification for Low Cost Carrier pilot groups accepting new work rules over what is industry standard daily. B-Scale led to PFT. PFT to Pay-For-Flight-Time while working. As has been stated before: It's a race to the bottom.

In all this wholesale destruction there appears to be one pilot group who are endemic to the industry is JetBlue. I think this is what IntheShade was attempting to point out.

Traditionally pilot groups negotiate a Collective Bargain which the entire pilot group work under. At JetBlue every pilot signs an individual five year contract which he alone works under and contractually cannot discuss with another pilot. At the end of five years he must again renegotiate a contract. Talk about your independent operator. Call it anything you wish but it smells of union busting to me.

Cleaning the aircraft cabin seems like a small thing but JetBlue tries to emulate the SouthWest Airline quick turn system except: SouthWest allows its pilots to remain pilots and only task them with the operation of the airplane. In the Swiss Cheese theory of looking at the error chain by tasking the pilots with non-aircraft responsibility the holes only become larger. Interesting as it is, JetBlue pilots have again shifted the paradigm of what a pilot career is.

Even more irresponsible has been thier direct attempt to alter and seek relief of the FAR Flight Crew have worked under for over 60 years. The JetBlue pilot group went hand-in-hand with the company to seek a FAR relief from the 8 hour flight time regulation. This is a FAR that was put into effect to protect crewmembers and was hard fought for like many other work rules. To go directly to the FAA in an attempt to alter them is beyond belief.

It is my belief that every Regional Pilot deserves the same career and benefits as a Mainline Pilot. It shouldn't be because the Mainline Pilot allowed the top tier of the industry to sink to Regional Pilot standards and work rules.

IntheShade only tried to have a discussion on these isses. If Flightinfo.com can't provide the forum to do it then consider changing the name to FlightFaireyTales.com

FLYBOYIKE:
You don’t know the 1/2 of it. Intheshade got banned for MUCH MORE than asking a few questions. Actually, asking question had nothing to do with him getting banned. His blatant use of this board to start fights among members and flaimbaiting was just the start of it. His PM's and the attitude he took with us were WAY out of line. If you have any other questions as to why he was banned, PM the website master, I am sure he would be happy to answer that!!

 

[flyboyike]

FLYBOYIKE:
You don’t know the 1/2 of it. Intheshade got banned for MUCH MORE than asking a few questions. Actually, asking question had nothing to do with him getting banned. His blatant use of this board to start fights among members and flaimbaiting was just the start of it.

Forgive me, I'm not a member of many boards, so I'm not sure I follow: how can a screenname start "fights" amongst other screennames?