Info on BMA interview please

[Lightning]

Legacy

You know it’s a disgrace that the great name of Pan Am could end up this way. A scab outfit (BMA) willing to fly around with Pan Am painted on the outside of the jet.

 

[Skyrider88]

Happy now??

Well Mr. Crusty, I hope your happy now. I got my furlough letter today because of you and the people you work with and for. This battle is FAR from over, I just hope your pleased with what youve accomplished so far.

 

[Capt_robert]

Court documents

As you are all aware, the court documents are available for anybody to read. In reviewing them, it seams to me ALPA has had over 2 years to try an stop BMA, yet you waited until they have the authority from the Feds. Is it realy Crusty fault you lost your job, I do not think so. The fault lies within. My question, is why your ALPA contract did not cover this type of alter ego airline. If I remember, other alter ego airlines were stopped because of their contracts covered such a start-up airline. I would only guess you pilots never went to management and tried to bargin on who would operate those United birds (now painted in Pan Am colors). Also, those same court documents stated that Pan Am has been losing millions of dollars, didn't ever occur to you that the owners would sooner or later would stop that type of loses. It seems to me, the owners just made the decesion.

As I have stated before on this message board, I strongly believe in the approach BM Air is taking, the airline industry is changing -- look for yourself at Delta, US Air, United, Northwest. The days of pilots making 300K and only working 6 months a year is over. Take a look at the curise line industry, all those ships are operated under a foregin flag, why? Because of the labor and unless you are willing to have all are airlines owned by foegin governments then you better take a hard look into the mirror and rethink as to why you PAA pilots lost your job.

 

[Skyrider88]

Just plain dumb.

If theres one thing I love its a good debate, or an educated response. If theres one thing I hate its speaking without knowing what your talking about. Capt Robert forgive me for saying so but your one dumb bast@#d. I beg you to read the court documnets before you speak again. BMA has ALSO lost $$. They have NEVER shown a profit and this was confirmed in court and mentioned by the judge. They are NOT switching to BMA to save $$, NO ONE at PAA makes 300 grand and works 6 mos a year, heck not even close!!!! Concessions were NEVER asked for!! A scope clause in our contract regarding alter ego airlines is irrelevant!! We won the court case without it!! You have got to either read the judges findings and rulings, the injunctions and restraining orders or shut up. Please!! It just blows my mind how ignorant you can be. Your entitled to your opinions about unions and labor. I have no quarrell with you being anti union. Just educate yourself before you make assumptions for your own sake. It makes you look like a uneducated know it all. After you have done your homework Id love to read your opinions again. Also why dont you call Mr. Fink up for a job, your the kinda guy he just loves to have in his corner. And about the 2 years part, until recently ( as in 6 months ago ) BMA was only a Jetstream and Casa hauler to compliment us not take us out!!

 

[727PAA]

As angry as I might be I will try to be civil

Captain Robert,

I am well aware as to what is in the filings, and have read everyone of them.

You say:
In reviewing them, it seams to me ALPA has had over 2 years to try an stop BMA, yet you waited until they have the authority from the Feds. Is it realy Crusty fault you lost your job, I do not think so. The fault lies within. My question, is why your ALPA contract did not cover this type of alter ego airline. If I remember, other alter ego airlines were stopped because of their contracts covered such a start-up airline. I would only guess you pilots never went to management and tried to bargin on who would operate those United birds (now painted in Pan Am colors). Also, those same court documents stated that Pan Am has been losing millions of dollars, didn't ever occur to you that the owners would sooner or later would stop that type of loses. It seems to me, the owners just made the decesion.

1. It is not Crusty's fault and I applaud him for saying he isn't anti union and wouldn't cross a picket line.

2. The airplanes that were bought by Guilford Transportation from United were not placed on the BMA certificate until July of this year. ALPA filed their lawsuit on Sept. 1st. Before they were placed on the BMA cert. there was no basis for this lawsuit.

3. There can be no negotiations with a managment that refuses to negotiate. The Pan Am managment has refused to negotiate anything for the last three years, including concessions or alter ego. If you read the judges decision he stated that you dont' need to have something in a contract that is already AGAINST the LAW!

4. The reasons that Pan Am(and BMA as well) is not making $$ is not because of the pilots. Have you seen the hodge podge of destinations/schedules etc. How many advertisments have you seen for Pan Am. How many people in Orlando or Manchester/Boston/Portsmouth knew that at one point we flew to Mrytle Beach, Allentown, Pittsburgh, etc. Try and find anyone in PSM who knows you can fly Pan Am or BMA from PSM to San Juan. If you can't put butts in seats you will never make money.
The month before the Sept. 2002 furlough we were flying from EWR to Santiago, Puerto Plata, and Santo Domingo in the D.R. Almost every flight was full....but we pulled out because the company said we weren't making any money. WELL THEN RAISE THE **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** TICKET PRICES!!! If you fly full airplanes and can't make money then you have much bigger problems!!

5. You then go on to say that we need to look why we are losing our jobs. I ask you then, what is a professional pilot worth? How much should a 12 year captain be making flying a 149 seat airplane? If you use BMA and a captain making a salary of 65k to start, with a 5% increase per year that equals 112k per year at year 12. How many days off should they have? FAA only requires 1 in 7 days, so, that would be 4.5 per month.

A 12 year Captain at PAA makes: 127.74 per hour. At the average lineholder value of 76 hrs per month that equals 116,500 per year. Is that a big difference to you? Is that too much money?

Lets try 3rd year F/O : PAA 51,200
BMA (based on 40K start) 44,100

And these dollar figures are in year 5 of a 6 year contract that was negotiated pre 9/11. If the company had an issue with our pay, why didnt' they once ask to open negotiations?

 

[727PAA]

Going on a little

PAA First year Captain: 76hrs/month 69.34/hr =63,200
BMA 65K

PAA First F/O: 76*49.93 = 45,500
PAA First F/E: 76*43.51= 39,700

76 hrs per month = 912 hrs per year. I think that is about average industry wide. So where exactly is PAA hurting our combined managements. Is it in work rules? I guess you think we shouldn't have days off, or schedules to bid on the month before. How about per diem. I guess that could be a killer huh.

 

[Megadeth]

Boo Hoo!

Well what about you yahoos scarfing 150 credit hours per month with your own people on furlough? Switching seats to max out pay while your fellow pilots are on the street? Well guess who is on the street now? Guess what goes around comes around.

 

[Stall]

Fink tryed to buy Kiwi and then Nations Air in an attempt to push this union out. He even said that the pilots would work for food after Kiwi shut down. This plan has long been in the making. If you think he just hates the union....your wrong...he hates everyone. Just ask his non union mechanics, dispatchers and office workers and not to forget the non union B&M pilots.

 

[727PAA]

Hey Megajerk

I was one of those pilots sitting out during furlough. So, how did this become my problem. I can't say that we don't have our share of problems, but, when managment won't recall people what are the folks back supposed to do.

You have to realize that the reason the first big furlough happend was to reduce the size of the union to make it easier to get rid of ALPA. You don't think managment was loving the divisions it was creating by purposely not recalling pilots. Some of our own guys bought into the $$$ and I feel it wasn't right.

If managment didn't want to lose so much money they could have recalled the correct amount of pilots to mitigate anyone flying over guarantee and give them more reserves. Obviously, they didn't care about the money and just wanted less union pilots around to fight.

Open your eyes, and stop being pissed at individuals. It is the management that is manipulating this.

 

[Stall]

Just a thought,
Imagine working for this place without a contract or legal representaion.
Here you can lose your job for not breaking the rules. You can defend your ticket when he calls the cops and says you broke the rules. You cant afford a lawyer to fight for your job back!
I wouldn't take my chances.

 

[Go around]

Suckers

Hey, quit picking on Megacrap. He and the others are still on their honeymoon with Fink. Suckers!

It's like this, if someone kicks the bucket no one can snag their birth certificate and then pretend to be them. I have heard of crooks doing this though.

 

[727PAA]

HOLD ON...I agree with Capt Robert

Captain Robert,

You stated: As I have stated before on this message board, I strongly believe in the approach BM Air is taking, the airline industry is changing -- look for yourself at Delta, US Air, United, Northwest. The days of pilots making 300K and only working 6 months a year is over. Take a look at the curise line industry, all those ships are operated under a foregin flag, why? Because of the labor and unless you are willing to have all are airlines owned by foegin governments then you better take a hard look into the mirror and rethink as to why you PAA pilots lost your job.

This is what I have been trying to say!!! Now wait a second and just listen.

You rightly state that if we should look at the cruise lines. The cruise lines operate under a foreign flag so they can use cheap labor. Now I will explain the correlation to what is happening here.

In the above posts I attempted to show that:
1. The pay difference between PAA and BMA is very small
2. The managment of both airlines is not to be trusted
3. The only real reason that BMA is flying 727's is to get around a labor contract that the managment cannot change at will.

I recently flew a flight, on which was a pilot dressed up just like Pan Am. White hat with a Pan Am logo, Pan Am wings, same uniform etc. Who is he you ask? A J31 Captain for Pan American World Airways. PAWA is a Dominican company that hires Dominican nationals (with US work rights)for less pay than BMA and they are trained by BMA under the BMA ops specs and then operate the J31's.

I also saw on the climbto350 website that on August 28th of this year. One month after BMA got the 727's on their cert. That BMA was looking to hire Dominican crews to fly B727's. They were specifically looking for pilots that were capable of working in the U.S. as well and that were bilingual.

Did you ever give a thought to perhaps the current BMA pilots are only PHASE one in this endevor. Perhaps once the PAA pilots are gone, then BMA can hire only Dominicans for less money than even the BMA guys are getting. What will be done about it then? Management will tell you...BMA is losing money guys. We just can't make it unless you take a 40% pay cut. If you don't then we have these other guys that live in the Caribbean that will do the job for less.

Sounds alot like the cruise ships doesn't it. Oh and guess what PAWA already has the white hats and Pan Am name. They don't even need to clean the Clipper Connection off the side.

 

[Go around]

Just stupid

Capt_Robert,

That is the most stupid post I have ever read in my entire life. What an idot!