Indy Air - 5/19 -- 35 Cities

[flyguppy]

IB6 UB9,

I don't think I "blamed" anybody for "my" salary cuts. I took what my union gave me in the name of "saving my airline". Who knows if it will be enough. I fully agree that our not flying overtime in the summer of 2000 was counterproductive.

As far as "looking down my nose" at other pilots, I feel I do not. I'm just making an observation. Attack me for my typo all you want, if it makes you feel better. I'll try to make it simple for you.

There are too many people out there that are **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** happy flying jet equipment for sub-standard wages. Period. $120K to fly captain on a 150 pax jet? Or $100K to fly an RJ? These rates would have been laughed at 10 yrs ago.

This has nothing to do with the situation at UAL, or "my salary cuts."

It's about the entire career. 10 years ago, if you listed the top 100 careers (taking everything into account - pay/benfits/time off), I think major airline pilot would have been in the top 5. Now, it'd be lucky to break the top 50, IMO. I'm already established, so I don't see myself changing careers. But if I was just starting my career hunt? There are plenty of other jobs out there in which you can make six figures, have more time off, every night at home, etc.

As far as your furloughed status, look no farther for blame than your own MEC. Giving away the no furlough clause? Great move.
(Gee, didn't work for Delta, did it?)

I didn't call anyone "names", as you stated. Nor do I "look down my nose" at other pilots. Let them fight to get to that "elusive" six figure mark. These days, I'm just saying that's as far as it's going to go.

Best of luck in your future.

 

[IB6 UB9]

I don't blame anyone for the loss of my job...siht happens. Wrong place, wrong time. As far as my MEC goes...well...I'm not going there. I am just extremely happy to have a job doing what I like to do, and I feel for a 4 year old carrier I am compensated adequately for it. Kind of like I was given a second chance. I, like a great many others, just get tired of hearing the likes of you say filth like this:

""Now, why did we pull out of these cities? "We priced ourselves out of the market" I believe you said. And you know what? You're absolutely right. There were PILOTS and at other airlines that were willing to be paid MUCH less to fly these routes for us. Easy decision for airline mgmt. So, mainline pilots lost jobs as a result"

If I read that right it sounds like your view is that mainline pilots lost jobs due to the fact that there were pilots willing to be paid MUCH less to fly these routes for us. Maybe I didn't read it right. I don't remember it that way and you might have a different tone if you weren't so "established" up your seniority list.

We could argue until we are blue in the face about what an adequate pay scale for equipment is. It's hard to justify the levels of the 2000 contract when a company is declaring bankruptcy, IMO. So now what? Maybe we should all quit our fkcunig whining about it and work to get those payscales and lifestyle back...at UAL, JB...everywhere.

 

[flyguppy]

So now what? Maybe we should all quit our fkcunig whining about it and work to get those payscales and lifestyle back...at UAL, JB...everywhere. [/B]

OK, agreed. Question still remains, how?

Don't think airline managments won't look at what has happened in the last 10 years. If you go to them looking for a pay increase.......there are others willing to do the same job for less.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Good question...the million dollar one literally. After going through the "perfect storm" it may take awhile for our industry to claw its way back to the top five of that list you talked about. Believe me, I will do my part. However, I will not take part in another "us versus them" action that bloodies the nose of the very company that signs my paycheck. After sitting in the unemployment line scratching my head I have determined that there must be a better way. I will leave it up to you to decide how to do it at your company but I have an idea what works at mine. (I'm sure I'll get chirped for that statement but whatever.) Something along the lines of doing my part to help them afford to give me a pay raise is what I have in mind.

And good luck to you sir.

 

[General Lee]

IB6 UB9,

I know. Just watch. Every Major and especially UAL will dump everything they can into IAD and dump the fares too. That is the way the Majors seem to treat new comers. Expect Southwest to also do the same with fares from BWI---trying to make it too expensive for the RJs at IAD to compete with the 737s at BWI. But don't worry, I bet Indy will avoid IAD to LGB---you get to continue your monopoly on that route....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

AMFteamster:

The RJ thing has been going round and round on a ton of threads for a while.

The 737 and the DC-9 were designed as Regional Jets, and now jets of 100 seats or so are considered non-regional jets, so I think we don't need to criticize people at airlines who have them. Since IndyAir is buying A-320 sized-jets, I think having them on the major board is no big deal.

I don't see what the difference is between a -190 and a -9 or a -717 as far as "RJ" vs. "Major" jet. They all seat about the same number of people.

Flyguppy:

The pay thing is all relative. Relative to most of America, basically ALL captains and also FOs at most airlines are at least middle-class, if not wealthy, compared to most Americans, and compared to everyone on the planet they are very rich. Do you own a car? If so, you are rich. There are millions and millions of families who will never, ever be able to afford a car.

I have a college degree+, and have worked at 6 full-time jobs, including being a military officer, and I've never made over $48K/year.

Making $120K and being gone 18 days/month, in addition to being able to fly sounds awesome to me! I hope to one day make over $150K, but sometimes I realize that this goal is kind of ridiculous, when their are entire families trying to live on less than $1K/year.

What you're talking about is Regulation vs. Deregulation. Those large salaries were made possible by Regualtion, and now that Deregulation has hit, economic realities have come to the airline business. An airline seat is a commodity, and all the airlines are able to get now is commodity pricing for them.

People new to the IndyAir idea:
They were Atlantic Coast Airlines, and flew feed for both UAL (jets and props) and Delta (jets). Delta is taking back the DO-328 jets and I believe flying them out of CLE? CVG? with Skyway (the Midwest Airlines-owned feeder) doing the flying for Delta.

ACA is changing names to IndyAir are starting out on their own with 50-seat CRJs and they are buying Airbus A-320 family aircraft. Their hub is IAD and they just started selling seats as IndyAir. They own the gates at IAD.

Question: I read that, basically, IndyAir is planning on flying the same number of flights in/out of IAD as they are doing now as ACA. I also read that UAL says it will replace ALL of their IAD feed.

How is this going to work? Are there enough gates for IndyAir AND UAL? Is UAL buying/leasing a bunch of gates? Will IAD be able to handle the added traffic of both IndyAir and a complete UAL feed? I read that AWAC will be opeing IAD as a pilot base. I think that some other feeder will be necessary, as I don't think AWAC can handle the same number of flights that ACA did unless they grew explosively.

Peace,

Cliff
MCI

PS-I hope we can Jumpseat on U guys. My friend commutes to GSP, and it looks like ya'll will fly from DTW-GSP via IAD. Good luck 2 U!

 

[T-Bags]

People new to the IndyAir idea:They were

Yup Indy "was" ACA. So lets look at ACA

From www.DOT.gov

For march 2004

12 month on-time rate: 17/17, and before you blame it on the government and the busy airspace, the late departures due to flow were lower than UAL, CAL, DAL, and NWA. most common reason? Late arriving jet. Yeah that 20-30 minute turn is gonna rock

Number of scheduled flights late over 80% of the time: 9 of the 19 reported for ALL airlines.

Airline with highest pecent of flights late 70% of the time (next closest had a rate LESS THAN HALF of ACA's)

Flight Cancellation Rate: 2nd highest (Thanks Eagle!!!) over 4X the DAL and UAL rate.

Lost Bags: 19/19 for a total of 12.27 per 1000 (UAL 3.64, Wn 3.08) But hey, it's getting BETTER!! Jan-Mar 14.7!!!

Customer complaints Jan-Mar: 19/19 (ie HIGHEST)

CASM: 16.5 cents a mile
Fuel: 3.1 cents a mile
Wages: 4.6 cents a mile
Rent AND depreciations: 3.4 cents a mile. Even if you DOUBLED jet productivity, CASM STILL 14.8 cents a mile!!
And oh yeah, thats WITHOUT HAVING TO SELL A SINGLE TICKET. Wonder how much commisions, ect will run...

A sure winner. The low fare crowd would NEVER drive to BWI for a ticket at HALF the price.

 

[climbhappy]

are the shuttle saabs going to replace the j41s on those given routes one for one? Has united announced any new plans to match the indy air route structure?

 

[PBE]

How is this going to work? Are there enough gates for IndyAir AND UAL? Is UAL buying/leasing a bunch of gates? Will IAD be able to handle the added traffic of both IndyAir and a complete UAL feed? I read that AWAC will be opeing IAD as a pilot base. I think that some other feeder will be necessary, as I don't think AWAC can handle the same number of flights that ACA did unless they grew explosively.

Peace,

Cliff
MCI

PS-I hope we can Jumpseat on U guys. My friend commutes to GSP, and it looks like ya'll will fly from DTW-GSP via IAD. Good luck 2 U!

Cliff,
ACA controls the A gates at IAD and will use them and the east end of B terminal (ajacent) for Independence Air. UAL is scrambling to place a commuter terminal on the southwest F ramp for their replacement service.

Independence and the FAA have been doing the press release dance and lobbying congress for more funding to help ATC & TSA handle the increased flying. We will see how it works later, but one thing is we won't have banks but a steady flow of arivals & departures.

In addition to ARW's return (ARW started UAX at IAD in 1986 = I was there and flew the first flight) there will also be shuttle america, republic, mesa & tran states in IAD. Should be fun to watch. I hear Delta ground services will run the ramp for all of them.

ACA/Independence has an open/unlimited jumpseat policy. After all revenue & nonrev standbys are boarded, any and all open seats can be given away by the captain to qualified jumpseaters. Of course the TSA may/may not someday allow you to sit up front & chat.

Welcome aboard...

PBE

 

[PBE]

Re: People new to the IndyAir idea:They

Yup Indy "was" ACA. Wonder how much commisions, ect will run...

A sure winner. The low fare crowd would NEVER drive to BWI for a ticket at HALF the price.

Yo teabags, good partial research there buddy.

First, all those delays and complaints are from our ORD flights. Ever go to ORD? It is pretty busy, and to top it all UAL controls the arrivals for their code there. They have been delaying & cancelling our flights to make theirs run smoother. It's their right to do so and quite frankly if I had to choose between an international 747 or an RJ from BTV I would do the same.

As for commisions: Zip, nada, zilch. You have to go to our web site to book: www.flyi.com

We will also take your call at 800-fly-flyi but that will cost you $5 extra for your ticket. We will tell you that right up front. It costs us about 5 cents to use our web site.

Lastly, have you ever driven the Capital Beltway around the north side of DC? It's a friggin parking lot during the rush hours and dangerous 24/7. We are betting the fine folks in northern VA will pay about $20 to avoid that mess.

Our fares will make money for us with a reasonable load factor. Everybody is matching us, but are they going to make any money doing so?

Thanks for your concerns & comments.

Come see us later this summer.

PBE

 

[T-Bags]

"First, all those delays and complaints are from our ORD flights. Ever go to ORD? It is pretty busy, and to top it all UAL controls the arrivals for their code there. They have been delaying & cancelling our flights to make theirs run smoother."

Then an even cursory look at the stats would have revealed that FLOW DELAYS were higher at UAL, AMR, DAL and NWA. so, YES, I'm sure ACA WAS delayed occasionally by "flow" and the bad ole UAL, but your delays were LESS than the others who solidly spanked your on-time stats.

But what did that have to do with the lost bags and complaints? And FWIW, your 16.5 cents a mile doesn't include weight restricted seats.

"As for commisions: Zip, nada, zilch. You have to go to our web site to book: www.flyi.com

We will also take your call at 800-fly-flyi but that will cost you $5 extra for your ticket. We will tell you that right up front. It costs us about 5 cents to use our web site."

LOL!!! so everybody in America will jump on the internet, go to "flyI" and book the tickets? Hmm. DYI that less than 20% of americans have high-speed internet access, and that the rate is LOWER in some of the more rural cities that you think will be the bread and butter. But how will people think to go to "flyi" on the net? Will it come to them in a dream? Or will you have to ADVERTISE. Or will pax go to "travelocity" Will you pay a fee to go there? But yeah, charging for the phone call will work to
. I'm sure a phone call to you will be the first choice of the locals. If it wasn't for the damage this will do to the industry during Flyi's slide to oblivion, it would be down right comical.

 

[T-Bags]

"We are betting the fine folks in northern VA will pay about $20 to avoid that mess."

You think folks will pay $20 MORE to fly an RJ?! YGTBSM!! But, yeah, the market says they will

"Our fares will make money for us with a reasonable load factor. Everybody is matching us, but are they going to make any money doing so?"

Lets review, your costs are over 16 cents per ASM NOT counting advertising and cost of sales, and the competition is BELOW 10 cents a mile... Yet you will make money at the same fares the competition will LOSE money at. And the competition will have high yield traffic connecting to overseas markets. PT Barnum was right. What day were you born on?

"Come see us later this summer."

So that you can bump me when the temp gets above 80 degrees and so that my luggage can disappear? No thanks.

 

[Carl_Everett]

LOL!!! so everybody in America will jump on the internet, go to "flyI" and book the tickets? Hmm. DYI that less than 20% of americans have high-speed internet access, and that the rate is LOWER in some of the more rural cities that you think will be the bread and butter. But how will people think to go to "flyi" on the net? Will it come to them in a dream? Or will you have to ADVERTISE. Or will pax go to "travelocity" Will you pay a fee to go there? But yeah, charging for the phone call will work to
. I'm sure a phone call to you will be the first choice of the locals. If it wasn't for the damage this will do to the industry during Flyi's slide to oblivion, it would be down right comical.

T-Bags,

You are right, FLYI won't sell any tickets because customers will have to use the internet or call the 800 number that would cost them $5 more to book.

JET-BLUE, SOUTHWEST, AIR-TRAN, Shut your doors now! T-Bags said this sales model doesn't work.

While we are at it, DELL, GATEWAY, and every other internet retailer better prepare for CH11. People don't like using the internet to shop for bargains.

 

[Carl_Everett]

"
Lets review, your costs are over 16 cents per ASM NOT counting advertising and cost of sales, and the competition is BELOW 10 cents a mile... Yet you will make money at the same fares the competition will LOSE money at. And the competition will have high yield traffic connecting to overseas markets. PT Barnum was right. What day were you born on?

"Come see us later this summer."

So that you can bump me when the temp gets above 80 degrees and so that my luggage can disappear? No thanks.

Here is a simple example for you:

None of the 10 cent CASM airlines will be able to offer 14 flights a day from Washington to Raleigh and make money. Southwest offers 6 right now and the reason they don't operate 7 is that they would not make money on the segment. People will spend an extra 20 bucks to travel for business in the morning and be back for a late dinner all while missing the dreadful beltway drive.

United offers CRJ service to RDU right now, the CASM was around 22 cents for a UAL. I think they will not be able to match our fares for very long.

As far as bumping, I fail to see what you are talking about. I never had to bump anyone in the IJET due to temperature.

 

[Flyforyou]

T-bags, is your last name Boyd??

 

[T-Bags]

"You are right, FLYI won't sell any tickets because customers will have to use the internet or call the 800 number that would cost them $5 more to book.

JET-BLUE, SOUTHWEST, AIR-TRAN, Shut your doors now! T-Bags said this sales model doesn't work.

While we are at it, DELL, GATEWAY, and every other internet retailer better prepare for CH11. People don't like using the internet to shop for bargains."

Hey dumb@ss. Have you folowed the thread? One of PT Barnums boys at "fly I" think that costs WILL NOT go up due to advertising and sales. So like I said, the whole internet address and 1-800 fly flyI (or is it Ifly fly or flyI fly or me fly fly...) thing will just come to the consumenr in a dream. instead of comming to the board ill informed and looking that way, why don't you do some research. If you had, you'd see that Blu, an ESTABLISHED BRAND, spent 5.2% of it's operating cost on marketing and sales. That's down from 6.2% the year before. For the factually challenged, that's 5.2 to 6.2 dollars per 100 dollars in cost. But silly DELL et all, they are wasting ALL that money advertising to get folks to the internet site.

 

[Carl_Everett]

"You are right, FLYI won't sell any tickets because customers will have to use the internet or call the 800 number that would cost them $5 more to book.

JET-BLUE, SOUTHWEST, AIR-TRAN, Shut your doors now! T-Bags said this sales model doesn't work.

While we are at it, DELL, GATEWAY, and every other internet retailer better prepare for CH11. People don't like using the internet to shop for bargains."

Hey dumb@ss. Have you folowed the thread? One of PT Barnums boys at "fly I" think that costs WILL NOT go up due to advertising and sales. So like I said, the whole internet address and 1-800 fly flyI (or is it Ifly fly or flyI fly or me fly fly...) thing will just come to the consumenr in a dream. instead of comming to the board ill informed and looking that way, why don't you do some research. If you had, you'd see that Blu, an ESTABLISHED BRAND, spent 5.2% of it's operating cost on marketing and sales. That's down from 6.2% the year before. For the factually challenged, that's 5.2 to 6.2 dollars per 100 dollars in cost. But silly DELL et all, they are wasting ALL that money advertising to get folks to the internet site.

I have done lots of research, why don't you do some? It is public knowlegde that FLYI will spend close to 40 million on advertising this year alone. They never said that costs would not go up due to advertising. They said that advertising costs were already included in the business model so there is no reason to show an increase in costs for advertising.

When JetBlue started up, were they an ESTABLISHED BRAND? I don't think so.

"Man who calls others dumb@ss will be the butt of those who crack jokes"

 

[DougCorp-9]

Funny, I didn't notice iCLUB, iPOINTS, or iJET on the Apple list of trademarks. Nor any reference to the use of a lowercase i preceding a capitalized letter. [/B]

If you can't see the parallel then I am not going to argue with a fool.

 

[DougCorp-9]

Funny, I didn't notice iCLUB, iPOINTS, or iJET on the Apple list of trademarks. Nor any reference to the use of a lowercase i preceding a capitalized letter. [/B]

If you can't see the parallel then I am not going to argue with a fool.

 

[Mugs]

"A new airline will introduce service next month during some of the most congested periods at O'Hare International Airport, a move that federal aviation officials say threatens recent on-time improvements. Independence Air, which has operated United Express flights at O'Hare as Atlantic Coast Airlines, will inaugurate its own low-cost service to Chicago June 16 from Washington Dulles International Airport. It also will phase out its partnership with United Express, United Airlines' commuter affiliate. Independence Air will offer 12 flights a day, increasing to 24 arrivals and departures daily in July--about half during the afternoon and evening hours when airline schedules already outstrip O'Hare runways and gates."

So is it also true that Dulles will be a two runway airport all summer as 30-12 is worked on? Man, this is going to be fun.

Jetblue studied smaller aircraft extensively in their decision leading up to getting the EMBs. Their conclusion did not support the economics (or should I say lack of) for a 50 seat jet. It will be very interesting to see how IA makes this work when Jetblue's number crunchers ruled out 50 seaters. It seems like IA is going to have to try and establish itself with the wrong airplane for the job.

 

[Mugs]

"A new airline will introduce service next month during some of the most congested periods at O'Hare International Airport, a move that federal aviation officials say threatens recent on-time improvements. Independence Air, which has operated United Express flights at O'Hare as Atlantic Coast Airlines, will inaugurate its own low-cost service to Chicago June 16 from Washington Dulles International Airport. It also will phase out its partnership with United Express, United Airlines' commuter affiliate. Independence Air will offer 12 flights a day, increasing to 24 arrivals and departures daily in July--about half during the afternoon and evening hours when airline schedules already outstrip O'Hare runways and gates."

So is it also true that Dulles will be a two runway airport all summer as 30-12 is worked on? Man, this is going to be fun.

Jetblue studied smaller aircraft extensively in their decision leading up to getting the EMBs. Their conclusion did not support the economics (or should I say lack of) for a 50 seat jet. It will be very interesting to see how IA makes this work when Jetblue's number crunchers ruled out 50 seaters. It seems like IA is going to have to try and establish itself with the wrong airplane for the job.

 

[smellthejeta]

lost bags

One of you asked about how ACA's lost bags could get blamed on United. That is simple.

From a statistical (or should I say accounting) stand point, the last carrier to touch the bags is the carrier that takes the mishandled baggage charge. This applies whether it is an interline (seperate codes) or within multiple carriers of the same code. So, if ACA fails to deliver the bag to the pax at Carousel 1 at IAD, ACA takes the PAWOB charge.

HOWEVER, United does all the baggage transfers between UA and UAX flights at IAD. That is, for any bag transfering to or from a UA mainline flight, a UA bag runner handles it. So, if UA sits on all of the UAX bags, ACA will still take the charge, even if UA dropped the bags late.

I did a stint at ORD awhile back, and the international arrivals facility handled, IIRC, an NRT and HKG flight that got in around the same time. They would wait until bags from BOTH flight cleared customs before bringing ALL bags to the ACA transfer point. At the time I got the bags at the transfer point, 1/3 of the bags missed their connection, 1/3 were hot (meaning departures within :30 or so) and 1/3 were cold (meaning bags I really didn't want to see for at least an hour). The point is that United had control of the bags until the last second, but ACA tooke the accounting charges for mis(handle)ing the bags.

 

[Rotorhead]

I love how they are ripping off Apple computer whith the "iClub" stuff. Lawsuit anyone.

Hey DougCorp-9 you better call Apple, looks like someone else is at it......

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=IPAS

 

[MW44]

atpcliff vbmenu_register("postmenu_348380", true);
Registered User


"
Do you own a car? If so, you are rich. There are millions and millions of families who will never, ever be able to afford a car.

Making $120K and being gone 18 days/month, in addition to being able to fly sounds awesome to me! I hope to one day make over $150K, but sometimes I realize that this goal is kind of ridiculous, when their are entire families trying to live on less than $1K/year."




I hope you are kidding with that starving kids in Africa line. So let me get this straight, because their are workers in china making DVD players for $1/day we should be happy to give up 20 years of wage and work rule improvements because we own two pairs of shoes? Give me a break. I hope to god you never sit on a negotiating committee.

 

[Ty Webb]

Over half of AirTran's customers book on-line.