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Incident question

HOURBUILDER

flyingsaucer
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If you damage the wing while beeing parked by marshalls because the marshalls screwed up, what is the level of the responsability of the pilot in this scenario.
In this scenario it was totally the error of both the marshallers and wingwalkers which never told us to stop the aircraft?
He parked us at the stop line for a 757 instead of stoping us prior to the CRJ line stop.
 

igneousy2

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If the airplane was moving under it's own power...the Captain with some blame on the FO if it was on his side. The only gray area would be if you were being towed/pushed or something ran into you. I would have called for a union rep yesterday.
 

701EV

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a lot
Hourbuilder,

You should be free and clear. If a marshaller, marshalled you into something it's their fault. I speak from experience.

701EV
 

BoilerUP

Citation style...
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If you had a wingwalker on the side of the impact, you'll probably be in better shape than if you didn't.

I can almost hear "Captain Pleasure" now..."DON'T SCRATCH THE F**KIN' PLANE!"
 

HOURBUILDER

flyingsaucer
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Glad to hear that, i guessed something similar happened to you?
and so nothing on your record?
 

veneratio

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growin
According to the NTSB, an accident is
"an occurrence associated with the operation
of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the
aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have
disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or
in which the aircraft receives substantial damage"

So, if there was substantial damage, and I assume there was, this can get classified as an accident. Who is at fault, I would assume the marshallers for failing to marshall the aircraft properly.
 

Tarzan

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Apr 21, 2005
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.
If you damage the wing while beeing parked by marshalls because the marshalls screwed up, what is the level of the responsability of the pilot in this scenario.
In this scenario it was totally the error of both the marshallers and wingwalkers which never told us to stop the aircraft?
He parked us at the stop line for a 757 instead of stoping us prior to the CRJ line stop.

It happened to me in ATL as well. It was on the CA's side and there was no action taken against us. AC was taken offline to have the wing repaired. We peed in the cup and blew in the little tube and then took a week off. If it had been the FO side it may have been a somewhat different situation.

Were were nearly taxied into something else only a couple of months ago. I'm starring out the window, mouth breathing. I see we are getting pretty close to a fuel truck. I tell the CA to stop. He is a little slow so I say it again and start squeezing the brakes on myself. He was curious until he leaned across and say what we nearly hit. We took pics and called the ramp sup. Had a great time playing at being irrate.

Point is, if it is on the FO side, you better be looking. The CA is responsiible for watching the marshaller. FO also have a responsibilty to watch not just the marshaller but their side of the airplane. Don't be afraid to use the brakes if the CA is slow getting to them. I don't ride the brakes but if I see something, my feet are close in case the CA doesn't hear or respond.
 

SpyFlysDOTs

Fight Info
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lots
Pushed into a fuel truck at ORD with rampers yelling at push crew. By the time I figure it out BOOM!
Filled out an IOR, never heard a word since.

PS never saw that many suits with cameras in one place after incident. News was pusher was drug tested then let go.
 

GogglesPisano

Pawn, in game of life
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enough
So much differing advice. You can pick whichever makes you sleep better or makes you a neurotic worrywart.

HOURBUILDER: You want my advice? Your time would be better spent filling out a NASA form, an ASAP form, and calling your ALPA rep.
 

~~~^~~~

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701EV and Goggles write words of wisdom.

You should be OK, unless the Rampers make up a different story. ALPA will help you by ensuring the camera tapes don't get erased or lost (funny how that happens sometimes). Also, of the Company says "don't worry," don't believe them. Sometimes the Company self discloses on the crew - throwing them right under the bus. Usually the FAA protects the party that self disclosed first.

Never, ever, forget:

There are two Certificates on the line every time the airplane moves; Yours and the Company's. The Company will do whatever it takes to protect theirs and it is up to You, alone, to protect Yours.

This applies to everything you do in an airplane, not just this instance.
 

Papps

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If you damage the wing while beeing parked by marshalls because the marshalls screwed up, what is the level of the responsability of the pilot in this scenario.
In this scenario it was totally the error of both the marshallers and wingwalkers which never told us to stop the aircraft?
He parked us at the stop line for a 757 instead of stoping us prior to the CRJ line stop.

As long as you had ground crew in place per FOM and you were watching the marshaller, you will be fine. I don't know why guys are trying to get you worked up.
 

GogglesPisano

Pawn, in game of life
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enough
As long as you had ground crew in place per FOM and you were watching the marshaller, you will be fine. I don't know why guys are trying to get you worked up.

We speak from experience. I am on airline #3, type-rating #6. This incident will probably be nothing more than paperwork. But what is the harm in filling out a bit more paperwork and cashing in some of the dues money you've been paying for all these years?

You never know.
 

Papps

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We speak from experience. I am on airline #3, type-rating #6. This incident will probably be nothing more than paperwork. But what is the harm in filling out a bit more paperwork and cashing in some of the dues money you've been paying for all these years?

You never know.

No i totally agree with you, for sure, fill out the "cover your A" paperwork. Sorry I thought that was a given when anything weird happens.

But after the paper work is filled out he will never hear anything else about it.
 

nwaredtail

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If you damage the wing while beeing parked by marshalls because the marshalls screwed up, what is the level of the responsability of the pilot in this scenario.
In this scenario it was totally the error of both the marshallers and wingwalkers which never told us to stop the aircraft?
He parked us at the stop line for a 757 instead of stoping us prior to the CRJ line stop.

Had the EXACT thing happen to me when I was at the commuters. The friendly FAA tried to get me on a careless and reckless, even though the aircraft was barely moving (coming to a stop). I got an aviation attorney, who took my 4 page writeup of the incident, condensed it to two short paragraphs. I still got a two year warning because the FAA can give those out like candy.

This is after the marshaller and wing walker said they screwed up and there was no way for the flight crew to see the object that they hit. (it was moved into the safety zone after the flight cleared the zone and after we had taxiied by. In other words, it was moved out of our sight.

Remember, the FAA is rarely your friend.
 

NEDude

yada yada yada
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Bottom line is don't ever trust a marshaller in tight quarters.
 
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