Timebuilder
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Inappropriate Relations?
- Thread starter Gilligan
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My view of the "professional" relationship is this.
The instructor (male or female) should never initiate any activity that may be viewed as threatening to the student (male or female). Period.
We're not saints, we're not priests/nuns and we're not doctors. But as an experienced business manager who had to deal with some pretty narly business relationships (read civvy to federal government workers, civvy to military, professional staff to support staff) I can tell you that like the bumper sticker says "love happens"! I had about 12 pages of my 300 page contractors guidance devoted to "non-fratenization rules" and still hormones, chemistry and infatuation happened.
Through it all. The only counsel I could give is that my contractor staff could not be the "instigators". That's not to say that these guys and gals didn't communicate that there was "interest". Because after three marriages, two babies and I don't know how many "inappropriate liasons", I know that folks are pretty good about getting around the rules. However, if my contract staff got themselves into a relationship and the govvy person accuses the civvy contract of anything - they're gone! Done! No questions. No but's.
So do yourself a favor - be careful. My rule - would my mom condone this behavior? Because harrassment is defined by the person who feels harrassed. In most of the big corporations and dealing with the federal government, if someone says they've been harrassed and points a finger - it's gonna be a tough road. As a manager, I was the subject of an accusation from an interview candidate that didn't get the job. My only saving grace was that my assistant always (and I mean always) left my door ajar except when I was in the office alone because I was always complaining about the poor circulation in my room and the fact that I had a detailed interview report about how the candidate failed technical questions. After a two month investigation, I finally got a letter from our legal staff that said the matter had been cleared since this person had sued two other firms of harrassment. It is extremely painful to go through these processes.
As to the cockpit, I got caught off balance when a student came to the school and wanted to add an instrument ticket. Very nice lady. Friendly, fun. We did some BAI skills the first time out. She asked about doing some night landings. We did a trip for that. Worked on the instrument some more. Asked for a night trip to some complex airspace. And after landing, she turned and asked if there was any interest. Well knock me down with feather! Embarrassed and yet elated that someone was taken with this broken down old frame, I respectfully declined - my wife just wouldn't understand. Had I been single, though, that was an invitation for some good fun and possibly a great romance. These deals don't come around that often.
Where do we meet our friends? Work, School, Church, sports and an occasional bar or social club.
As to "G", like other folks said, find something else to amuse yourself with. I managed my staff and worked hard to stay out of their lives (and I'm the guy who was responsible for any inappropriate behavior). Trouble, if there was any, would always find me without me turning over any rocks. You started a great thread, but you've got some issues. Jealousy is the most destructive emotion we have. I don't know if you have issues with the girl, with the schedule book or with the attention she's getting but whatever you expressed in your second post was pretty ugly.
The instructor (male or female) should never initiate any activity that may be viewed as threatening to the student (male or female). Period.
We're not saints, we're not priests/nuns and we're not doctors. But as an experienced business manager who had to deal with some pretty narly business relationships (read civvy to federal government workers, civvy to military, professional staff to support staff) I can tell you that like the bumper sticker says "love happens"! I had about 12 pages of my 300 page contractors guidance devoted to "non-fratenization rules" and still hormones, chemistry and infatuation happened.
Through it all. The only counsel I could give is that my contractor staff could not be the "instigators". That's not to say that these guys and gals didn't communicate that there was "interest". Because after three marriages, two babies and I don't know how many "inappropriate liasons", I know that folks are pretty good about getting around the rules. However, if my contract staff got themselves into a relationship and the govvy person accuses the civvy contract of anything - they're gone! Done! No questions. No but's.
So do yourself a favor - be careful. My rule - would my mom condone this behavior? Because harrassment is defined by the person who feels harrassed. In most of the big corporations and dealing with the federal government, if someone says they've been harrassed and points a finger - it's gonna be a tough road. As a manager, I was the subject of an accusation from an interview candidate that didn't get the job. My only saving grace was that my assistant always (and I mean always) left my door ajar except when I was in the office alone because I was always complaining about the poor circulation in my room and the fact that I had a detailed interview report about how the candidate failed technical questions. After a two month investigation, I finally got a letter from our legal staff that said the matter had been cleared since this person had sued two other firms of harrassment. It is extremely painful to go through these processes.
As to the cockpit, I got caught off balance when a student came to the school and wanted to add an instrument ticket. Very nice lady. Friendly, fun. We did some BAI skills the first time out. She asked about doing some night landings. We did a trip for that. Worked on the instrument some more. Asked for a night trip to some complex airspace. And after landing, she turned and asked if there was any interest. Well knock me down with feather! Embarrassed and yet elated that someone was taken with this broken down old frame, I respectfully declined - my wife just wouldn't understand. Had I been single, though, that was an invitation for some good fun and possibly a great romance. These deals don't come around that often.
Where do we meet our friends? Work, School, Church, sports and an occasional bar or social club.
As to "G", like other folks said, find something else to amuse yourself with. I managed my staff and worked hard to stay out of their lives (and I'm the guy who was responsible for any inappropriate behavior). Trouble, if there was any, would always find me without me turning over any rocks. You started a great thread, but you've got some issues. Jealousy is the most destructive emotion we have. I don't know if you have issues with the girl, with the schedule book or with the attention she's getting but whatever you expressed in your second post was pretty ugly.
aero99
just a member, not senior
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It is possible to be professional and have a relationship. Are there possible pitfalls, of course, but who cares?
I met my wife at the office, kept it business only at work and our off time was our time and no one's business but ours.
I have a neighbor that is a Capt for American and he flies the 76 and married a FA from his company. She quit working because she could and it was never a problem because the kept it professional.
Where's the love.....?
I met my wife at the office, kept it business only at work and our off time was our time and no one's business but ours.
I have a neighbor that is a Capt for American and he flies the 76 and married a FA from his company. She quit working because she could and it was never a problem because the kept it professional.
Where's the love.....?
j41driver
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FLYnMONKEYS
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A Squared
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Uhhh, Gilligan,
According to your post, both persons involved have attained the age of majority a long time ago. Your second post really showed your true colors, and gave us a stomach turning glimpse of your true motivation in this issue. You really, *really* need to mind your own business. Nothing that you've written demonstrates that your suspicions are true, or even well grounded, just that they spend a lot of time together out of your sight (can you blame them). Perhaps they are romanticly involved.... guess what? It's none of your business. Perhaps she is getting preferential treatment....Guess what? It happens all the time, for a lot of reasons, whether someone's sleeping with somone, or someone just wants to, or someone is drinking buddies with someone, or someone is the son of someone's fraternity brother, or sometimes, just because someone is a pleasant, likable person, and people like to do nice things for him or her. Get over it. You should also be aware that based on what you have posted here, it is extremely unlikely that you will ever be the recipient of favoritism of that latter type.
"they run off together knowing I'm keeping an eye! Like cat and mouse! It's sick to watch!"
It appears that irony is not your strong suite....yes, I'm sure that it is very sick to watch you "hanging around" trying to pretend that you're not watching them, trying to "look casual" when all concerned realize that you have appointed yourself the monitor of their personal lives. You are one creepy individual.
According to your post, both persons involved have attained the age of majority a long time ago. Your second post really showed your true colors, and gave us a stomach turning glimpse of your true motivation in this issue. You really, *really* need to mind your own business. Nothing that you've written demonstrates that your suspicions are true, or even well grounded, just that they spend a lot of time together out of your sight (can you blame them). Perhaps they are romanticly involved.... guess what? It's none of your business. Perhaps she is getting preferential treatment....Guess what? It happens all the time, for a lot of reasons, whether someone's sleeping with somone, or someone just wants to, or someone is drinking buddies with someone, or someone is the son of someone's fraternity brother, or sometimes, just because someone is a pleasant, likable person, and people like to do nice things for him or her. Get over it. You should also be aware that based on what you have posted here, it is extremely unlikely that you will ever be the recipient of favoritism of that latter type.
"they run off together knowing I'm keeping an eye! Like cat and mouse! It's sick to watch!"
It appears that irony is not your strong suite....yes, I'm sure that it is very sick to watch you "hanging around" trying to pretend that you're not watching them, trying to "look casual" when all concerned realize that you have appointed yourself the monitor of their personal lives. You are one creepy individual.
Simon Says
New Airbus Regional Jet
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Timebuilder
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bobbysamd
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MYOB
I stand by everything I said above regarding professional ethics. But, in your case and as the others have suggested, don't be a jerk about it. Keep the whistle in your pocket.
If I were you, I'd be more concerned about finishing your training and promoting your career than the other guy, his career, his chick, and his chick's career. In other words, take care of yourself and don't be an a$$hole. This business has too many backstabbers, jealous types and immature types already.
Just a little friendly advice and food for thought.
I'm glad this discussion started because instructor ethics is never addressed. Act professional if you want to be thought of as a professional.
I stand by everything I said above regarding professional ethics. But, in your case and as the others have suggested, don't be a jerk about it. Keep the whistle in your pocket.
If I were you, I'd be more concerned about finishing your training and promoting your career than the other guy, his career, his chick, and his chick's career. In other words, take care of yourself and don't be an a$$hole. This business has too many backstabbers, jealous types and immature types already.
Just a little friendly advice and food for thought.
I'm glad this discussion started because instructor ethics is never addressed. Act professional if you want to be thought of as a professional.
Last edited:
Timebuilder
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He's right.
In fact, consider the fact that this guy could be blissfully flying along just as I alluded to, and suddenly hit some severe turbulence.
Ouch.
You are going to be a lot happier if you don't worry or obsess about these two. This business is already as difficult as it needs to be, without any special help to make it more difficult.
Smile.
In fact, consider the fact that this guy could be blissfully flying along just as I alluded to, and suddenly hit some severe turbulence.
Ouch.
You are going to be a lot happier if you don't worry or obsess about these two. This business is already as difficult as it needs to be, without any special help to make it more difficult.
Smile.
It all depends.
A quite a few years back I had a private pilot student that was a real hotty. It was obvious that there was attraction between us. I didn't feel right taking her money so I started teaching her for free. We stayed together and 5 years later got married.
Best decision of my life. She loves aviation even though she's not a professional pilot, she understands why I have to be away from home, and I can talk to her about flying and she gets it.
It all depends. Good luck.
A quite a few years back I had a private pilot student that was a real hotty. It was obvious that there was attraction between us. I didn't feel right taking her money so I started teaching her for free. We stayed together and 5 years later got married.
Best decision of my life. She loves aviation even though she's not a professional pilot, she understands why I have to be away from home, and I can talk to her about flying and she gets it.
It all depends. Good luck.
pilotyip
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Sleeping with female student
Yea, I had problem where I was instructing a female who I was sleeping with, I would say lets practice S turns across a road and she would say I don't like S turns, lets do some more stalls and spins. Too familiar with the student, she was starting to run the show. I tried to solo her, but she would not fly without me being in the airplane. BTW we had been married 25 years at that time.
Yea, I had problem where I was instructing a female who I was sleeping with, I would say lets practice S turns across a road and she would say I don't like S turns, lets do some more stalls and spins. Too familiar with the student, she was starting to run the show. I tried to solo her, but she would not fly without me being in the airplane. BTW we had been married 25 years at that time.
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