Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Impressions???

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Nappy

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Posts
8
Here's the deal.
Hired about a year ago into a large cabin Int'l aircraft. Very good but not great pay. During the interview owner states that he anticipates 250 hrs/yr usage and expects to get 100-150 hrs/yr in charter. Company managing the aircraft says it'll just be two pilots for the balance of '04 but owner has agreed to three pilots beginning '05. BTW the other guy was hired a few months before me and told the exact same thing.

Now here we are July '05 and still no third pilot. Owner hrs look like there going to be more like 300 to 325 for the year and charter is right about 150 hrs/yr. Doesn't sound like a lot of flt. time but owner trips are usually long Int'l type and were spending 12-14 RON's/mo on their stuff alone. Throw in the wonderful world of charter (waiting for the phone to ring) and its getting to be a real drag. The management company has gone to the owner numerous times and about the third pilot but only pushes so hard, (obviously doesn't want to lose the mgmt fee) but I've been to the meetings and they're sincere in their agreement on the need for a third crewmember. We'll have worked every weekend this month and the first one of Aug, every holiday since Thanksgiving last year.

I realize I'm fortunate to have a good paying job in this climate but WTF??????? Do you all think I biatching about nothing or should I start looking for a new gig? Curious as to what others think.
Thanks!!
 
Hmmm.

We fly 1200 hrs. a year with the Global with 4 guys. 10-16 RON's in a row not uncommon. On call 25 days a month, 24-7 for those days. World wide. No charter.

The benifits are top notch, the pay is average. We get 5 hard days a month in a row off ( we dont get to pick them). If push comes to shove they will get a temp to cover the plane.

You should have at least a third pilot and a list of good temps in a pinch. It sounds like the owner is being cheap or the management company is dragging their feet.

Talk to them again. It's better to talk to them then get pi$$ed off and build walls. That will just make the job worse.
 
Have you approached your boss about ditching the management company and making one of you guys Chief Pilot? You could still keep the airplane on the management company's charter certificate if he's that concerned about offsetting costs.

If you could talk the boss into operating like a traditional flight department instead of under the management company's umbrella, maybe that would give you guys more control over staffing (but undoubtedtly more administrative work).
 
Last edited:
"The bigger the airplane the bigger the suitcase".

Nappy- You need to push for that third pilot or at least get a good contract guy. I think you'd be surprised how easy it is to find a contract guy, especially for long, multi-day trips.

Bottom line is: CHARTER SUCKS!

FWIW-It might be worthwhile to look at how much your boss is really "saving" by keeping the plane on a 135 certificate. My airplane used to be on charter. My CP and I showed the boss how much extra it was costing to keep the plane under a management contract. We took over management and re-negotiated hangar, fuel, MX, etc. We saved a bundle and the boss has never looked back. Now, we've gone from averaging 25 days a month with multiple RON's to 5 days a month, 1 RON, no pager and a schedule set 60-90 days in advance. Check it out.

Good Luck!

*EDIT*-Brett types faster than I do.:)
 
HMR said:
*EDIT*-Brett types faster than I do.:)

Yea! And don't forget it! :D

But the most important question is obviously: Are you guys hiring? :cool: And what is this "schedule" that you speak of? :p
 
Brett Hull said:
Have you approached your boss about ditching the management company and making one of you guys Chief Pilot? ).

good way to lose your job. obviously a very touchy affair. be careful with that advice :)
 
HMR said:
"The bigger the airplane the bigger the suitcase".

Nappy- You need to push for that third pilot or at least get a good contract guy. I think you'd be surprised how easy it is to find a contract guy, especially for long, multi-day trips.

Bottom line is: CHARTER SUCKS!

FWIW-It might be worthwhile to look at how much your boss is really "saving" by keeping the plane on a 135 certificate. My airplane used to be on charter. My CP and I showed the boss how much extra it was costing to keep the plane under a management contract. We took over management and re-negotiated hangar, fuel, MX, etc. We saved a bundle and the boss has never looked back. Now, we've gone from averaging 25 days a month with multiple RON's to 5 days a month, 1 RON, no pager and a schedule set 60-90 days in advance. Check it out.

Good Luck!

*EDIT*-Brett types faster than I do.:)

First of all: you're right - charter totally sucks. As far as keeping the airplane on Part 135 or not, the size of the airplane totally matters as far as taxes are concerned. If you're flying a $20m Gulfstream/Falcon/Bombardier, putting it on 135 avoids the sales tax of the airplane which can save many millions of dollars. If you're talking Citation II/Learjet/Westwind, you're right - unless they're chartering the heck out of it, you can manage it yourself cheaper if you know what you're doing.....
 
Nappy said:
Do you ... think I biatching about nothing...?
Yes. You're a charter pilot, for crying out loud.
You will need a 3rd guy or a good contract guy soon, though.
 
Time2Spare said:
. If you're flying a $20m Gulfstream/Falcon/Bombardier, putting it on 135 avoids the sales tax of the airplane which can save many millions of dollars. .....

Register the airplane in a state that does not have sales tax.
 
Time2Spare said:
First of all: you're right - charter totally sucks. As far as keeping the airplane on Part 135 or not, the size of the airplane totally matters as far as taxes are concerned. If you're flying a $20m Gulfstream/Falcon/Bombardier, putting it on 135 avoids the sales tax of the airplane which can save many millions of dollars. If you're talking Citation II/Learjet/Westwind, you're right - unless they're chartering the heck out of it, you can manage it yourself cheaper if you know what you're doing.....

Not sure but, don't you have to do 51% charter over a two year period in order to benefit from this tax break?
 

Latest resources

Back
Top