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I'm Standard

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flyf15

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 13, 2004
Posts
548
Well, I have to vent.

What is up with "I'm Standard"? I'm a CRJ FO at a large regional.... I'd say almost every single time, part of the initial briefing I get from my captain is "I'm standard," "I run everything by the book," or something of the like. Then, they proceed to make up callouts, exceed limitations, fly their own profiles, and occasionally scare the crap out of me.

Don't say you're standard unless you are. Even if you are, you don't need to say it. I expect you to be standard and you expect me to be standard. If you are or are not, I'll find out pretty quickly.

Alright, done venting. Thanks.
 
That's just like the guy who says, "I'm really laid back" in their brief. Actually, if you were laid back you would feel the need to say it. I know I'm in trouble when I hear this and the standard comment. It's gonna be a long trip!
 
I have never flown with a captain who flies standard when the first part of the briefing includes that term.
 
Good points. But the captains are trying to tell you that they would like you to at least try to do things in a standard manner. They probably also say something along the lines of, "let me know if I'm not doing something standard," so feel free to speak up if that's the case. You do speak up, don't you? That's actually your number one priority.

Besides, how would it sound if they said, "I know everyone says 'I'm standard' around here, but that's BS, so feel free to make stuff up as you see fit."? Probably not a good idea for CRM.
 
How about, "Fly the plane the way you want." You get Captains who are very standard to the ones after the autopilot comes on their breaking out the paper/book. It's up to you to say something.
 
SBD said:
the ones after the autopilot comes on their breaking out the paper/book.
Click to expand...

That's actually allowed at some companies. I'd be annoyed if someone told me I could not read in cruise flight, regardless of company policy.
 
flyf15 said:
I'd say almost every single time, part of the initial briefing I get from my captain is "I'm standard," "I run everything by the book," or something of the like. Then, they proceed to make up callouts, exceed limitations, fly their own profiles, and occasionally scare the crap out of me.
Click to expand...

Capt saying he/she is "standard" then they are not.......I would say this is pretty "standard" :D
 
How about the ones that say they've been on the plane for 7 years, so they can offer you some pointers? I start gritting my teeth when they start telling me how to fly the plane the way they fly it.
 
It is funny when during Line Checks I hear the skipper give the "I'm Standard" speech and those are the ones that I spend more debriefing time Re standardizing.

It's a good practice to end the month you spend together with an F/O with him or her debriefing your performance. Ask specific questions, don't only say How did I do? If you are specific, you will get specific answers. Do you think I use the correct sequence on my cockpit preparation? Did you see me cutting corners on the flight deck safety check to power the A/C up? What do you think I should change on my F/A brief? Rather than ask, What do you think about my approach brief? Ask. What would you like me to add on my approach brief? etc.etc. If you are specific about your questions on regards of the way you conduct your business, you'll be amazed as to how useful the constructive criticism is.
One last note. Don't justify yourself when receiving the critique interrupting the F/O when he or she is debriefing you. Remember that this is not for him or her, It is for YOU! Listen, analyze, adjust your behavior and learn. Even the 500 hour rookie has something to teach if you only Listen.
 
capt. megadeth said:
Capt saying he/she is "standard" then they are not.......I would say this is pretty "standard" :D
Click to expand...


How about FOs who brief "I'm going to duck the GS a bit to make the TD zone." Translated it means "I'm going to push forward and gain airspeed and hold power in longer than necessary so when I get in to ground effect I can float a really, REALLY long way down this short runway then when I do slam it in I can jam the brakes and pull full reverse thrust to save my ass." Uh, sure. Why not just fly the profile as written and you don't have to make me wonder if we're dragging through the approach lighting system mkay?

Yah, love them standard non-standard briefs too.
 
I have only flown with one cptn who was completgely standard to the "T". Even passing the controls during his brief off the approach. I liked it; no guessing as to what was ever going to happen. I wish eveybody would just do it standard. Slackers.
 
JettBoii said:
I have only flown with one cptn who was completgely standard to the "T". Even passing the controls during his brief off the approach. I liked it; no guessing as to what was ever going to happen. I wish eveybody would just do it standard. Slackers.
Click to expand...

I had one of those recently too. I'm all about standard, but if approach changes your runway assignment 3 times there is no need to swap flight controls each time to brief another approach. All of the swapping back and forth resulted in us nearly messing up a crossing restriction. Just use a little common sense sometimes, folks...thats all.
 
DiverDriver said:
How about FOs who brief "I'm going to duck the GS a bit to make the TD zone." Translated it means "I'm going to push forward and gain airspeed and hold power in longer than necessary so when I get in to ground effect I can float a really, REALLY long way down this short runway then when I do slam it in I can jam the brakes and pull full reverse thrust to save my ass." Uh, sure. Why not just fly the profile as written and you don't have to make me wonder if we're dragging through the approach lighting system mkay?

Yah, love them standard non-standard briefs too.
Click to expand...

Good point. FO's remember: most of the bad habits captains have were developed when they were FO's. As captains, they are less likely to be challenged.

Don't develop habits you will bring to the left seat.
 
My goal is to create an atmosphere relaxed enough so my FO will speak up if she or he is concerned about something or knows something that should be brought to my attention, but strict enough so that I don't get walked on all day long. If this means I pick my battles and every once in a while a procedure is bent, so be it. My brief is I give no brief. I always fly the first leg when I am with someone for the first time. I kind of set the procedural bar and then expect them to conform to it. If they scare me, I get upset otherwise....party on. As for reading in the cockpit....only if it has pictures.
 
Well, I don't know about standardization, but I could do with a LOT less of seeing pictures of the dude's girlfriend, and THEN pictures of the smiling wife and kids.

A year later you fly with guys like these, and all you get is 4 days of how bad he's getting hammered in the divorce...

Nu
 
JustaNumber said:
Quick F/O poll:

Hypocrisy issues aside, would you prefer to see more or less standardization in the cockpit?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say "less" standardization, but more common sense would be nice on a few rare occasions. I have no problems with probably 95% of the people I've flown with in my 6 years :eek: as an FO. The checklists get done, no crossing restrictions are missed, no runways are "incurred", and we have a good time as well as a few laughs at our screw ups, for lack of a better term. The hardest thing I have come across are the super standard, precisely by the book Captains who can't see the forest for the trees, the ones who are so wrapped up in the minutia (sp?) of the procedures that they miss the big picture. "If there's not a procedure for it, I don't know how to handle it". Luckily I've only had a handful of theses guys/girls in my career so they seem to be the exception to the rule.

That being said I know I have become a bit complacent in my career in the right seat so a challenge every once in a while isn't the worst thing in the world. All that I hope for is for the person correcting me to pick their battles when doing it and treat me as if I'm at least a marginally competant pilot. If you point out every little thing (half a dot high or a few knots fast on a visual approach) I'll eventually tune you out and the whole CRM thing will be out the window. Again, I haven't had too many of these types in my career, but the ones I have had have left a lasting impression.

Taking cover now.

Edit:

I always fly the first leg when I am with someone for the first time.
Click to expand...

Excellent idea. That makes an FO's life much easier.
 
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vectorvictor said:
My goal is to create an atmosphere relaxed enough so my FO will speak up if she or he is concerned about something or knows something that should be brought to my attention, but strict enough so that I don't get walked on all day long. If this means I pick my battles and every once in a while a procedure is bent, so be it. My brief is I give no brief. I always fly the first leg when I am with someone for the first time. I kind of set the procedural bar and then expect them to conform to it. If they scare me, I get upset otherwise....party on. As for reading in the cockpit....only if it has pictures.
Click to expand...

Ditto. If my FO, with a grin on his face, actually says to me "What the fu&# are you doing?" at some point I know my mission for the month has been accomplished. For one, the FO is challenging my (incorrect, idiotic) actions, and secondly, he's doing it in such an otherwise abusive manner that it's clear we have built a solid rapport and that I can challenge/correct him if necessary without completely derailing the cockpit atmosphere.

And after a year or two of FOing I also took to grimacing when the "I'm standard, really laid back, let's stay safe, not get violated, and have fun in that order" line of BS was briefed. It usually meant expect wildly nonstandard flying, at times abject danger, risk to my continued employment and certificate, cockpit tension, and zero fun.
 
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If I was a captain (which I'm not) I would tell my FOs I am going to fly it like its a checkride, and if ANYTHING pops up that makes US feel uncomfortable we need to speak to each other and provide a resolution, we need to both have "thick skins" to suggestions (grain of salt) If I was a captain I would not try to instruct the FO unless he/she was encroaching on limitations safety. One thing I've found is everybody flies differently and just about everyone arrives at about the same safety and outcome. Most people learn well enough doing it day after day.
 
The only thing I look forward to with this job is reading. I know that each week I'll finish a good book. Great way to make the day go by. For those of you wimps who dont like it when people read then I say F you! Its not that hard to put the book down and scan or do something else. And for those of you who say that you'll have a hard time putting on your O2 mask? I bet I get it on faster they you, you old greasy fart. Now, let me get back to my book!
 
My favorites were....

Ok, im laid back, standard and by the book. When its your leg its your plane.

translation

im an uptight pain in the arse. When its your leg, its actually my leg and you are flying.
 
The worst Captains that I've had are the ones that sit there, turn the hot mic off, and say nothing the entire trip. Conversations are impossible...you ask them something to strike up a conversation and get a one word response. If you're really that miserable then stay home. This also goes for FO's who are like this.
 
vectorvictor said:
I always fly the first leg when I am with someone for the first time. I kind of set the procedural bar and then expect them to conform to it. If they scare me, I get upset otherwise....party on. As for reading in the cockpit....only if it has pictures.
Click to expand...

I agree with that. I prefer CA to fly first so I see how they do things and if it isn't unsafe or against the manual I'll do it their way. Case in point, like when to turn the A/P on. I've been yelled at for not turning it on early enough. Sometimes I just feel like hand flying for awhile.
 
vectorvictor said:
My goal is to create an atmosphere relaxed enough so my FO will speak up if she or he is concerned about something or knows something that should be brought to my attention, but strict enough so that I don't get walked on all day long. If this means I pick my battles and every once in a while a procedure is bent, so be it. My brief is I give no brief. I always fly the first leg when I am with someone for the first time. I kind of set the procedural bar and then expect them to conform to it. If they scare me, I get upset otherwise....party on. As for reading in the cockpit....only if it has pictures.
Click to expand...

That being said....the better you think you are, the more I am going to mess with you. It sounds cruel and mean but really I am doing you a favor. Imagine what you get when a c^cky FO upgrades?

The hardest thing in life is learning to look at situation through someone else's perspective. When you upgrade remember what it was like to fly with the "hot mic off" jerk for a month. Or remember flying with the nit-picker. I can tell you that I would never go out of my way to help these jerks out. I've had many an FO "bail me out" when it comes to stuff and I appreciate it. So here's to you "Mr. Regional Airline First Officer...."
 

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