im gonna say something thay I will regret... I miss Falcons

[rumrnr78]

LD- Glad all is well with you! Enjoy the new aircraft! I will Skype you, we are in Siem Reap, Cambodia on holiday, Virg says hello! Cheers- Rum

 

[LegacyDriver]

Hi Virg!!!

Well, I came out of a 152 with Jet Engines on it. Flying an EMB is easier than driving a car. The thing is simple as heck and I like the ergonomics of the Mark I cockpit very much.

This thing probably has a sextant in it somwhere it's so dated.

I guess I'm just weird. I thought even the 700/900 were more work than the ERJ was, though a marked improvement over the 100/200 for sure.

I just prefer the automation and ease of use. Obviously that's the trend these days and with good reason. If you can have the system do the work for you why not? Isn't that why we have maids?

RUM!!! Give Virg a hug for me. I will fire up Skype old boy.

 

[spxdriver]

Maybe after you've flown it awhile. That said, a 50 I could do single pilot a lot easier than this thing.

I'm coming out of a highly advanced, automated airplane with simple, highly redundant systems into less automated, less sophisticated ones. It is probably harder to go backwards than forwards. Maybe.

Well, you're comparing a mid-80's era airframe to a 2000's era airframe. Not a fair comparison.

I'm glad my first type was the EMB because I think I would have been overloaded in anything else. Maybe I have ADHD or something...

Now the real reason for my reply...

*MAYBE* you have ADHD? Ya think LD??

Jeez, you don't have to have a PhD/PsyD/MD to say that you definitely have ADHD. :laugh:

 

[LegacyDriver]

Lol spx!

 

[NCherches]

If you can't fly a citation you can't fly ********************.

Once the engines are running on a citation the hardest part is what lights to turn on when....

 

[LegacyDriver]

If you can't fly a citation you can't fly ********************.

This is my fourth Citation and frankly, I can't figure out why anyone would want to.

Once the engines are running on a citation the hardest part is what lights to turn on when....

Yeah. I have to flip something like nineteen switches *AFTER* cleared for takeoff and then monitor all sorts of nonsense that is keeping my head in the cockpit instead of looking outside.

No thanks.

Gimme my EMB back. There's nothing simpler than a Legacy except maybe a Phenom.

It's a paycheck though so... I should be grateful and shut up at this point.

 

[NCherches]

...It just blows my mind to think a Citation is a high-workload aircraft lol...

 

[LegacyDriver]

...It just blows my mind to think a Citation is a high-workload aircraft lol...

Cuz you've never flown a Legacy.

This Cessna has 11 switches you have to flip on and off every single leg just for anti-ice. EMB has zero. It is in auto and if it *DOESN'T* work **THEN** you flip a switch.

And don't get me started on this ridiculous autopilot that I have to push three buttons to get it to do one little thing then PRAY it actually captures the altitude.

And this silly warning panel. Sometimes the lights come on and that's bad. Sometimes they come on and that's good. Sometimes you have to flip a lot of switches to find out if it is good or bad.

Bleh.

1980 at its finest.

Heck, gimme back my Falcon!

 

[spxdriver]

Yeah. I have to flip something like nineteen switches *AFTER* cleared for takeoff and then monitor all sorts of nonsense that is keeping my head in the cockpit instead of looking outside.

No thanks.

Gimme my EMB back. There's nothing simpler than a Legacy except maybe a Phenom.

LD -- Let's look back on Embraer's product line. Rather than comparing a 2010 jet to a 1980's jet, let's compare Embraer's 1990's products with Cessna's 1980's.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/France---Air/Embraer-EMB-121AA-Xingu/1264898/L/

According to the manufacturers checklist, that airplane has 27 items on the "before takeoff checklist," compared to your 18. On top of that, Embraer's product is 5-10 years newer. I think that we can use your words to describe the Embraer cockpit:

Yeah but if ya get violated cuz u can't find the right switches in a maze of switches, buttons, and dials u won't be flying long. Yikes!This plane needs a flight engineer.

It goes without saying that an EICAS system is going to simplify the cockpit. Looking at the cockpit, I'd say that the Citation cockpit is much easier to find your way around than that Embraer cockpit.

Good luck on your checkride LD; I hear the training centers are coming down hard on SIC applicants these days.

 

[NCherches]

I guess I enjoy doing a little bit of work on a flight....if you consider pushing buttons for anti-ice (that I rarely use flying in the Southwest) work. Flying is boring enough - sometimes I flip switches just for fun during those long flights.

 

[Dumbluck]

try the Citation III, (C-650). Its was designed by laid off Boeing engineers. The control knobs and switches, enviro panels, etc look like they came off a 747 Classic. I don't think the word ergonomics was created when they designed that cockpit. No flow to it at all. But it is one my favorite airplanes, 51,000 certified and .89 Mmo(?) .84 normal cruise. Handles like a dream.

 

[LegacyDriver]

LD -- Let's look back on Embraer's product line. Rather than comparing a 2010 jet to a 1980's jet, let's compare Embraer's 1990's products with Cessna's 1980's.

According to the manufacturers checklist, that airplane has 27 items on the "before takeoff checklist," compared to your 18. On top of that, Embraer's product is 5-10 years newer. I think that we can use your words to describe the Embraer cockpit:


It goes without saying that an EICAS system is going to simplify the cockpit. Looking at the cockpit, I'd say that the Citation cockpit is much easier to find your way around than that Embraer cockpit.

Blah blah blah.

Embraer's 1990s cockpits are way smarter than Cessna's 2000s cockpits. Better systems, easy to find stuff. No comparison.

Fact is that EMB has jumped way ahead of just about everyone.

Besides, the EMB overhead panel is pretty much like Falcon or Boeing with systems grouped in columns. Since everything is in "AUTO" (dark and 12 o'clock) it is pretty hard to get lost "finding your way around."

 

[LegacyDriver]

try the Citation III, (C-650). Its was designed by laid off Boeing engineers. The control knobs and switches, enviro panels, etc look like they came off a 747 Classic. I don't think the word ergonomics was created when they designed that cockpit. No flow to it at all. But it is one my favorite airplanes, 51,000 certified and .89 Mmo(?) .84 normal cruise. Handles like a dream.

Pretty much my point.

Now, the checklist at the TC isn't helping because it is not user friendly, but it has taken me about a week to get my head wrapped around where to find stuff here. The lightbulb finally came on today, but all things being equal, make mine an EMB.

 

[Dumbluck]

the 650 also has a parking brake handle the takes the skin off your left shin. The Emer gear extension handle pokes into your right knee. Not comfy or even usable in a practical sense. It does keep you awake though.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I hear the snatchback on the T/R IDLE DEPLOY will break your finger also. Screw that.

I prefer the EMB. FADEC commands IDLE REVERSE regardless of Thrust Lever Angle when a bucket opens in flight (and with something like three or four locks basically impossible any way).

This is a fun jet but man I think of all the ways it can kill me.

A bucket popped in an ERJ just makes it rumble and yaw a little. They say this thing will flip you inverted. YUCK.

 

[NCherches]

....Don't believe anyone who teaches a simulator and has .6 hours in the aircraft.

 

[NCherches]

...LD - Why not tell us what jet you are flying?!

 

[Quimby]

Cuz you've never flown a Legacy.

This Cessna has 11 switches you have to flip on and off every single leg just for anti-ice. EMB has zero. It is in auto and if it *DOESN'T* work **THEN** you flip a switch.

And don't get me started on this ridiculous autopilot that I have to push three buttons to get it to do one little thing then PRAY it actually captures the altitude.

And this silly warning panel. Sometimes the lights come on and that's bad. Sometimes they come on and that's good. Sometimes you have to flip a lot of switches to find out if it is good or bad.

Bleh.

1980 at its finest.

Heck, gimme back my Falcon!

whaaaaaaa

 

[LegacyDriver]

LOL. Waaaah!!!!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Pretty much my point.

Now, the checklist at the TC isn't helping because it is not user friendly, but it has taken me about a week to get my head wrapped around where to find stuff here. The lightbulb finally came on today, but all things being equal, make mine an EMB.

Hey LD

You're getting pretty worked up for a sim check snatching gear in a goddam Girly Cessna.

Keep hittin the books, I hear those FSI rides are like "drinking from a firehose"...way harder than some silly in-house 121 thing.