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I'm Dead Meat

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ShyFlyGuy

Major Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Posts
539
I work for a small 135 company and we got a base inspection Monday and it turns out that the numbers on the board were wrong and my medical was due March 1... I've had 26 duty-days without a current medical.

I fly night cargo and go to school full-time durring the day, plus my girlfriend killed herself 6 weeks ago, thus further distracting me. Things couldn't get worse... but wait, they do. She's the boss' daughter. I had a post in here at the beginning of the year, in case any of you remember that (about school vs. airlines). Now things couldn't get worse.

Any idea how the FAA will handle this?

(see further details below)
 
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File a NASA report immediately! I am not sure if that will help, but it can't hurt.

Other than that, if you are an AOPA member.... call them ASAP.
 
Dude,

I am sincerely sorry about your troubles, nobody should have to go through what you are. Hopefully the FAA will look at the mitigating circumstances in deciding to pursue a civil penalty against your employer and/or certificate action against you. As much a I would like to give you what I think to be sage advice, in your situation, I recommend this: File the NASA report today, and seek legal counsel today. An aviation lawyer will be able to provide you with good solid advice about how to proceed in your dealings with the feds. If you're not an AOPA member, try giving Kent Jackson and his associates a call. Good folks

www.jetlaw.com

best of luck bro, I hope things get better for you soon. Keep on plugging away, if there's anything I can do to help, drop me a PM.

Warmest Regards,

LJDRVR
 
Hopefully the FAA will look at the mitigating circumstances in deciding to pursue a civil penalty against your employer and/or certificate action against you.

I wouldn't count on it...they have no heart. I REALLY feel for you pal. Join AOPA and get the legal benefits option. It may save you a ton of money. And by all means, send that ASRS form (NASA form).
The good news is that I doubt it will affect your airline career as most of the selection pilots will see through the smoke and understand your tough break. I was a selection pilot for a while and I know that myself and the guys I've shared the decision with would understand. Best of luck to you. Nobody deserves that kind of luck.
 
If you haven't already filed the Nasa form when you do make sure you do NOT include any incriminating information in the title on the top part of the form. In other words don't title it "medical violation" or "flying with expired medical" instead say something like "medical issue", etc. The faa cannot use details from the NASA form against you but they can use any admissions on the tear off portion at the top of the form.
 
It's not quite the end of the world for you. Like the others have posted, file a NASA report ASAP and seek qualified expert aviation legal counsel.

Flying without a legal medical certificate does not look quite as bad as gearing up an airplane..... and my bud who did that is now a Captain with a prestigious company. Sure he went thru hell and back to get the job, but he did it, and if he can do it, I think your situation is just a little speedbump. good luck!
 
While not offering information to the FAA, don't adopt a confrontational attitude either. Many inspectors will be more sympathetic if you are humble and genuinely apologetic. I have spoken with several inspectors who agree your attitude is an important element in determining the outcome of the investigation. However, there are inspectors out there who do have the law enforcement complex. Cross your fingers you meet the former.

Send in the ASRS form, certified mail, return receipt. Consider calling an aviation attorney in your area. This is important as they will have experience with the inspectors in your FSDO.


Good luck, it's not the end of your career.
 
vclean said:
While not offering information to the FAA, don't adopt a confrontational attitude either. Many inspectors will be more sympathetic if you are humble and genuinely apologetic. I have spoken with several inspectors who agree your attitude is an important element in determining the outcome of the investigation. However, there are inspectors out there who do have the law enforcement complex. Cross your fingers you meet the former.

Send in the ASRS form, certified mail, return receipt. Consider calling an aviation attorney in your area. This is important as they will have experience with the inspectors in your FSDO.


Good luck, it's not the end of your career.

Great advice! This is the way to go. Call an attorney before doing anything.
 
plus my girlfriend killed herself 6 weeks ago
Not trying to be rude, but since you posted it, I'm going to ask...why did your girlfriend commit suicide? Just curious...not trying to make fun...it just seems sad.

I do remember you posting about dating the boss's daughter before.
 
Another thought from someone in the middle of the investigation process, what have you done to ensure the same thing doesn't happen again in the future?

Have you renewed your medical yet?

The FAA generally wants compliance much more so than enforcements. Its a bunch less paperwork to threaten the certs of a pilot and get compliance than to actually file the paperwork.

But don't worry, the meanest Inspector in the FAA is working in the Western-Pacific Region and is most likely not assigned to your case.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein
 
JediNein said:
But don't worry, the meanest Inspector in the FAA is working in the Western-Pacific Region and is most likely not assigned to your case.
Are his first and last initials G.D.?

LAXSaabdude.
 
Answers

Thank you all for all the wonderful advice. I'm filling out an ASRS form right now. I do have a repor with the inspector and the FSDO, so I also think I will write a letter of Voluntary Disclosure, since that's just my style. I am a member of AOPA, although not a subscriber to the Legal Service Plan, but I will give them a call also. I got the call from my C/P yesterday at 2:00 in Cleveland while I was trying to jumpseat home (200 miles away) and had my medical by 6:00pm the same day. This morning I faxed a copy of the medical to the FSDO before they opened. I think I'll call the Inspector yet today.

As far as my girlfriend goes, we were dating for 9 months and I still have 3 years of school to go. She wanted to get married and start a family and a life of our own. Doing the math, I realized that it would be some time before I could give that to her, so I let her go so that she could find someone who was ready to get married, and if she wanted to wait for me for 2-2.5 more years, then I would happily have taken her back. Unfortunately, I did not convey that well, simply said it's over, and she had issues that I was oblivious to. Two days later, she drove to my hangar (where I live), parked inside, took 14 xanex, and fed a hose from the exhaust pipe into the car and started the engine.

To be completely honest, I don't think I would have lasted a month without her. She meant so much to me and I was just trying to give her freedom to find someone new. Since she died, I gave up on the student body president campaign, and school itself (I can't concentrate on school).

Clearly this has complicated my life dramatically. All of it. I started a website as a form of self-therapy. www.amykrueger.net
 
This is heavy stuff...I've been on this board since I was a student pilot...my heart goes out ot you...

After you straighten all of this out (legally), maybe you should take a break...a sabatical. Take some time to get yourself together, then get back into the (flying) game. I know your most likely tight on money, but doing some traveling, and soul searching may help clear things up. Taking just 2 weeks off and going somewhere you've never been may help you clear your mind, and help you move on with your life. This is one of those life changing experiences...you'll pull through it and become a stronger person.

Hope this helps...

House
 
ShyFlyGuy,

My heart goes out to your bro. I'll say a prayer tonight for you and your girlfriend. House X is right. Take some time, get your life sorted out. Flying, school, all of that can wait. What is important is to ensure you can pick yourself up and get through these tough times.

The religious posts on here bother me, but I gotta say: God be with you through this tough time.

-FC
 
so sorry to hear about your girlfriend. that is absolutley horrible. i agree with the others. take some time off. maybe see a grief counselor. i hope everything works out for you.
 
I'm Dead Meat
No you're not.
Take the posted advice to heart.
Nasa form, write the letter, contact a lawyer, call AOPA and definitely get help to deal with it even though our ego tends to get in the way of that.
You can pull through this, but very few of us can do that all by themselves.
 
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Shyflyguy,
One day at a time, bro. If that doesn't work, one hour or minute at a time.
Your bros are with you, and we're thinking of you tonight. God bless...

Jason
 
Do what they say. NASA Form, Aviation Lawyer and above all, do not incriminate yourself.

In a couple of months Mesa will hire you anyways.....

This too shall pass...
 
I can't imagine what you are going through buddy. My heart goes out to you and your/her family. What you have been given is good advice, but you have to take care of yourself first and foremost. The FAA and career stuff will work out, you sound like a stand up guy and I'm sure that will work to your benifit.

You should probably also consider the advice given about a break or a sabbatical. What you are going through is one of the hardest things anybody can go through, and having a hard time dealing with it is okay. You need to get your head, and heart for that matter, taken care of before something else happens. I'm sure money is tight, but you need to make sure your head is in the game at work...

Take care of yourself, our prayers are with you and your departed.
 
ShyFlyGuy,

I know it feels like he!! now but things will get better. I lost someone due to a drunk driver. At times I still think about what my life might have been like if it wasn’t for one stoplight. I can’t say the hurt ever goes away, but over time the good times will be what you remember the most. Just keep your head up and find a friend you can talk to.

Geigo
 
Damm ShyFlyGuy, sorry to hear about that man. That is awful.
 
This is definitely one of the more thought provoking and heavier topics I have ever read, unfortunately, on here. Cant help but to feel for you and the situation you are going through.

I think EVERYONE should take some pause to think about some of the things in their lives that are important, and how some of the things we let bother us, and how trivial they can be, compared to when someone like him really has some important issues going on in his life.

I think I can speak for most any of us here, that although we do not not know you, certainly wish you the best, and wish there was a way to be of help in this time.
 
ShyFlyGuy,

You'll pull out of this upside-down, troubled time--We're all confident you will. Seek out those you can confide in--and keep on talking, sharing, writing. Thousands of thoughts and prayers are with you. . .
 
I don't know what to say. Thanks, everyone. I didn't start this thread to get sympathy, but the outpour has been so touching. I can't hold back the tears when I read your responses to my plight. I just wish all my tears and pain could bring her back. I can't imagine how lonely she must have felt in the moment she decided this was the soloution. I feel like I failed her, my best friend, and she definately didn't deserve that. My brain tells me that this is not my fault, but my heart aches nonetheless. Thank you all, from the bottom of my heart.
 
Once, decades ago, I was riding my bike over to a friend's house. It was getting late, and I hadn't seen that friend in about a year. I made it to his street, two houses away, and my alarm went off. I had to book it for home or I'd break curfew. He was very intelligent, wanted to be a fighter pilot, was going to go to the Air Force Academy, and knew how to fix a flutter problem that was ongoing with one of the military planes of that time. I was 11, he was 11.

I turned around.

The next day, I noticed my friend's father wasn't at the chess club meeting like usual. That was odd.

When I came home from that meeting, my friend's father was in the living room, obviously he had been crying hard. Grown-ups, especially male grown-ups, didn't cry.

My friend had hung himself the day before, in the late evening.

If I had only knocked on his door, maybe my saying "hi" would have stopped him, or broken through that 'most awful person in the whole world' mindset.

If only. . .

Two years later, different school, same town, my best friend, distraught over her father killing himself two weeks previous, said that she wanted it all to end – she just knew her dad did what he did because of her. Not again!

I asked a school counselor for assistance in how I could help her through this time. I didn't know there was a law in that state that required counselors to immediately take action. He left the room 'for a moment' and the police hauled my friend away in handcuffs. At her home the police found a suicide note and all the fixings; my friend was planning to kill herself that night.

She didn’t speak to me for two years. But she was alive to not speak to me.

She now has three adorable kids and just as happy as can be. She served on Active Duty during the first Gulf War and is on inactive reserves now, with plans for her husband to take over the household should she go active, or for her to take over should he go active.

I've lost too many more friends since then, egos and airplanes don't mix very well. Each one tends to hurt less than the one before. But it still hurts, the price of loving, daring to make friends, and being in aviation.

The Air Force flew a flag over the Academy Chapel in honor of that first friend. It took 6 months for the numb feeling to go away.

Now the feeling lasts for a few weeks for a close friend, a few days for a not-so-close friend. Some I actually get mad at, "he knew better!!!!" I even got mad at God a few times for his untimely removal of some folks I rather liked.

It still hurts, and if I were to focus my attention on those deaths I'm sure I would work up a rather sad state.

Throw yourself into your work. Avoid long flights with lots of time in VFR cruise, make work for yourself to avoid thinking and reflecting. Keep a routine as much as possible. Give yourself permission to grieve, and give yourself permission to take a break from grieving. You don't have to feel miserable 100% of the time. Just 80% miserable is okay the first few months.

You have a responsibility to yourself to keep on living. If you find yourself making mistakes while flying, don't fly solo. Most companies are quite understanding during these times and usually can find a warm body or check pilot for the other seat or give you permission to fill that other seat. Stopping flying, especially if it is the only joy still in your life, is a really bad idea. It really helps if that other person is someone that can listen, and will let you talk. This message board is one outlet, I'm sure you can find others.

Creating the website is a good idea, but don't stop with your girlfriend. Put some of yourself into that site. Some websites I see are frozen in time. The webmaster has stopped living and is solely focused on that other person.

The above tips are ways to help the grieving process along without falling into a depression.

If you find yourself having trouble switching mindsets from grief to business, pick up a copy of "Feeling Good" by David Burns. Avoid drugs & alcohol like the plague. Although they can numb the pain, they have devastating effects on your ability to keep flying. Although certain anti-depressants are fine for depressions, they typically are not suitable, again especially for pilots, for the short-term grief process.

Keep us posted.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein
 
You're having a tough time. It's important not to isolate yourself from friends and family when difficult times arise. There are many services nationwide that are available to help you cope that are staffed by caring volunteers and trained professionals. If I can help you get in touch with someone in your area please PM me.


About the medical....get a current one ASAP and file a NASA form. From your post I gather it was unintentional and, given your personal circumstances, somewhat understandable. You didn't just blow it off. I'm not aware of any reason to report yourself to the Feds though. Talk to an attorney about the best way to proceed. Good luck.
 
A NASA form will do you no good. I don't understand why pilots think that it is a "Get OUt of Jail Free Card". A NASA form is an aviation safety reporting form that they use to compile statistics and improve aviation safety awareness. The only protection that it gives you is that the FAA cannot use the information disclosed on the form to initiate certificate action against a pilot. If the FAA has found out about your violation through other means, they can take certificate action against you at their discretion. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. A good lawyer is your best bet. Best of luck.


Flame away ...
 

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