IFR Training - capturing the localizer

[shon7]

For IFR Training if a student misjudges his position and the localizer needle suddenly comes alive and swings do you encourage him to make a sharp turn and keep the localizer active or is that too risky.

We were having a debate with two CFIs - both had valid points of views.
One said that in actual conditions the most important thing is not to lose the localizer while the other stated that you want to avoid a sharp turn in such a scenario as you are too desparate to keep the localizer and thus might actually make too sharp a turn inadvertently.

Your thoughts?

 

[JAFI]

.
One said that in actual conditions the most important thing is not to lose the localizer...

while the other stated that you want to avoid a sharp turn in such a scenario as you are too desparate to keep the localizer and thus might actually make too sharp a turn inadvertently.

Your thoughts?

IMHO the MOST important thing is to keep flying the aircraft. A steep turn in IMC can induce vertigo. Steep turns (anything beyond standard rate) and vertigo inducing maneuvers are to be avoided.

Intercepting a localizer at too steep an angle (horizonal) is not uncommon. The student needs to learn how to calmly recapture or to maneuver to capture with out aerobatic maneuvers.

Unless you are intercepting the localizer in a narrow canyon below the rim I would ask what is the hurry?

 

[pilotyip]

what kind of intercept angle are we taking about?

 

[shon7]

intercept angle of 30 degrees

 

[Lynxman]

That's not very much. You should be able to do that with out banking to much if all else fails though ask for vectors around to reintercept if you're not comfy.

 

[pilotyip]

Shouldn't be a problem

intercept angle of 30 degrees

We do that in jets, and there is no problem capturing LOC even at 140 KTs, and you don't even start your turn at LOC breaking case. This is intercepting abut 5 miles from the maker. Are you close in?

 

[brokeflyer]

sounds like at least one of you cfi's needs to go get some dual from a real cfi somewhere.

there shouldn't even be a discussion about this.

 

[Flex-ible]

sounds like at least one of you cfi's needs to go get some dual from a real cfi somewhere.

there shouldn't even be a discussion about this.

I assume because you agree that no turn should be made at more than standard rate. If you can't make the turn, go missed and ask ATC for another vector. Stall/spin is too much a possibility.

 

[Hobiehawker]

More than standard rate is not a steep turn. You fly standard rate to minimize aero dynamic changes and to allow time for an effective scan.

If your performance declines with more than standard rate then you should discontinue the approach and try again. If not, then you can continue the approach.

 

[J.Otto]

For IFR Training if a student misjudges his position and the localizer needle suddenly comes alive and swings do you encourage him to make a sharp turn and keep the localizer active or is that too risky.

We were having a debate with two CFIs - both had valid points of views.
One said that in actual conditions the most important thing is not to lose the localizer while the other stated that you want to avoid a sharp turn in such a scenario as you are too desparate to keep the localizer and thus might actually make too sharp a turn inadvertently.

Your thoughts?

During a training scenario, I feel it's perfectly fine to perform whatever bank angle is required (within reason; up 45) to recapture. Bank angles up to 45 degrees should be practiced to proficiency during instrument training. This is to hone better the skills and feelings duirng these more "extreme" maneuvers. You should be able to execute these maneuvers if necessary, under IMC.