IFR Flight Plans...Enroute time?

[Deftone45075]

Most small airports that have a particularly long published transition also have a published hold at the FAF that can also be used as an IAF, so you would file to that fix, make yourentry to the hld and become established on the approach course. This will take about 2 mins.

There are always exceptions, but 15 minutesto go from an IAF is pretty rare.
Either way, the time enroute would still be from takeoff till your over that field for the purposes of entering the time on a flight plan.

 

[IP076]

OK, lets make it my 3 cents worth....

91.185 IFR Operations: Two Way Radio Communications Failure

(c) (3) (i) When the Clearance Limit is a fix from which an approach begins, commence descent or descent and approach as close as possible to the expect-further-clearance time if one has been received, or if one has not been received, as close as possible to the estimated time of arrival as calculated from the filed or amended (with ATC) estimated time enroute.

So, this means depart the fix at the EFC if you got one or at your Flight Plan ETA for that fix. (Not the airport)

Make Sense? Same would be true for the next paragraph in the regs also.

Could clear all the confusion if you got an EFC time from ATC every time. Just ask them for one.

80% of the time your clearance limit is the airport, so that means you just go and shoot the approach no matter what.

Also, nowhere does it say that you must file an IFR flight plan to an IAF. What if the weather is such that will allow a visual approach. I could legally file direct to the airport (GPS or VRV) from some enroute fix (VOR or INTERSECTION). I can legally file IFR with only DIRECT going into the ROUTE section of the flight plan.

 

[Deftone45075]

So, this means depart the fix at the EFC if you got one or at your Flight Plan ETA for that fix. (Not the airport)

Your post is acurate but quite incomplete.

This applies when there is a clearance limit. If you are cleared to the destination airport, there is no clearance limit.

And you also did not mention that the paragraph you quoted, (3)(1), is applicable when the clearance limit is an IAF for the approach in question. If the clearance limit (again if there is one) is not a IAF, then upon arrival atthe clearance limit you continue to the IAF without holding. this is in (3)(2) of the same reg.

And the fact still remains that as per the FAR's, the time to be entered is the elapsed time till over the pointof intended landing. For the purpose of fillingout the flight plan, the answer is in black and white. It does not mention anything about your clearance limit because you will not even know if there is one at the time of filing your flight plan.

 

[IP076]

You're right, I just didn't quote the next paragraph, I did mention the same is true though.

If your clearance limit is the destination airport, then theres no problem. Just go and fly the approach.

We're also forgetting one big point here also.

The AIM also states that it is impossible to come up with procedures for every situation and to use sound judgement. I'm thinking that comm failure in actual IMC is close enough to an emergency for me. In that case I can deviate from part 91 as needed to safely end my flight.

 

[Deftone45075]

Absolutely. your the pic, you do what you need to in order to resolve the emergency. In the case of lost comms., the last thing I want to do is fly around in cirlcles killing time.

 

[prpjt]

The AIM also states that it is impossible to come up with procedures for every situation and to use sound judgement

This cannot be stressed enough. You are going to find yourself going to airports that may have many approaches, but none of which have a published IAF. Dallas Love is a good example. It's not all black and white.

 

[Mitsipilot]

I don't know about every one else here, but I hardly ever file to an IAF, unless it just works out that way. Do you all do things differently? Just curious.

 

[scubabri]

I would argue that your clearance limit is the IAF or beginning or the approach because in order to make the approach, you have to be cleared by ATC in some form or fashion.

At least all of the times I've flown them, I was cleared for them, I don't know how this works in non-radar environments, only having flown a couple, but both times, ATC cleared me for the approach as well.

just my $.03 (adjusted for inflation)

Brian

 

[Deftone45075]

The IAF is not your clearance limit unless ATC told you "you are cleared to Xyzyz (iaf), expect further clearance at 0000Z." If they said you are "cleared to the destination airport" than you do not have a clearance limit.

The fact that you need to be cleared for the approach and to land does not make it a "Clearance Limit."

A clearance limit will be used when you cannot be cleared all the way to your destination airport. You will know about it when you call for your departure clearance, or if you are already enroute, when they assign a re-route and it does not take you all th way to your destination. In either case, ATC will advise you of the Limit and the EFC time.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Good grief! ETA calculations are an educated guess at best anyway. Round down a little so you don't have to hold if you go nordo.