If you could do it over again, would you...

[Hawkered]

Publishers

Yes...you're correct.

 

[TORCH67]

Take a look at the average duty time and RON's ..... It is a very complex picture to just look at Salary and compare apples to oranges!!!

Ave Flight hours per year = 319-377
Netjets pilots are flying 500-700 per year depending on fleet

Ave RON's = 58-60
Netjets pilots spend 144(7&7), 180+(17day)

Ave Duty Hours = 1402-1607
NetJets pilots (1500-2300)

Ave Weekend days worked = 21-27
Netjets pilots work a min of 24 weekend

Ok, no 24/7 pager or additional duties for Netjets but most Corporate depts get to wear business casual (not a comparison I know). Lots of other perks with each job that may or may not even up.

Just adding some points here.

 

[Publishers]

points

Torch,

Those are much more relevant points than have been being made here. In the real life examples on the two Challengers I mentioned their hours are in the 450 area as they fly charter and operations for the owner both. The charter is for EJM mostly.

Obviously the more long range, the higher hours that go with them. In addition, on the two examples, they fly mostly weekends to the owners a) other homes like St Thomas, b) to the owners area football team games mostly held on weekends.

One other Challenger is managed by a young man who takes care of the Challenger and a Sabreliner. He is the only employed pilot and is expected to find contract pilots for F/o as required. Most trips are weekends-- Thursday to Sunday. He airlines back but misses most of these because the ower does not keep a very tight schedule. He got a Challenger rating out of the deal and a mid eighties salary. His duty hours are whatever is necessary to fly plus see the aircraft get maintained.

Would not even know how to get these guys duty times.

Everyone assumes that I think Netjets pilots are over paid or paid adequately. Not particularly. I do think they need to understand where they fit into the system ==their context of the business they are in.

For the most part, they think like airline types but want corporate Fortune 500 wages but with security that they do not have.

 

[Frac Daddy]

Publishers...

There is danger in trying to compare things that are not equal or comparable. Hard days off, remote bases, charter vendors, crew services by HQ personnel, all of these are part of making the crew cost for Netjets expensive when in context with who they compete.

Publishers,

I generally agree with you but you might want to check some of the posts about the Netjets TA. Some of the complaints are that with this new TA, you may have to be available on your days off. Remote bases will be going away for new hires.

I agree with you that a slightly lower pay is the price for hard days off and remote bases. That is why I went to the fractionals. But this TA seems to take these things away without bringing up the pay to corporate standards.

 

[SkyGirl]

Does anyone know how NetJet pay under the TA would compare to the other major fractionals - FlexJet, Flight Options and Citation Shares?

 

[fogrunner]

If you could do it over again, would you...




Back to the original question...

I spent 5yrs at FLOPS, as a BJ and CIII Capt. If I had to do it again. I would have stayed at Skywest. I think it is a case of what you like. Some people like Chevy's, others like Fords. I just prefer the airline culture.

 

[Publishers]

right

Publishers,

I generally agree with you but you might want to check some of the posts about the Netjets TA. Some of the complaints are that with this new TA, you may have to be available on your days off. Remote bases will be going away for new hires.

I agree with you that a slightly lower pay is the price for hard days off and remote bases. That is why I went to the fractionals. But this TA seems to take these things away without bringing up the pay to corporate standards.

That is really the question I have been looking to see answered. How are wer doing against the others in this business? From a business perspective, Netjets has a good many problems going for itself at all times. It is a big horse and has a big appetite for cash. The model works great as the animal is getting bigger but it has yet to be proved for the term. What do I mean? They made some estimates at the beginning that take a number of years to be proven or disproven such as the residual value of aircraft.
Other elements are there ability to sell more and more shares in an economy that struggles, a big enough fleet to keep deadheads down, reduce outside charter, etc etc.

Your pilot labor cost is a really small part of the equation taken in total context of the model.

Back when Paul Tibbetts and I talked about all this, the problem was that they were geared to pricing trips as if they were all one way. Unfortunately they were not competitive against others for any variation like round trips or trips from where the charter company was based. He had to keep his crew cost down because they would leave the plane and move the crew, a costly proposition.

 

[Hawkered]

Back on to the theme of the original post...

Yes, I am happy.

No, I wouldn't change a thing if I could do it over again.