If you could do it all over again...

[NTXPilot]

I usually check this website quite often to see what is happening in the industry, what people are talking about, ect. however I don't normally make too many posts. The posts I have made are questions about how to pursue an aviation career (which route to take, pros/cons of flight school, ect). I haven't really made a decision yet on which road to take, but I've done my research so that will help when it comes time to make a decision.

Neither I nor my family/friends know any airline pilots, so I come to this website for information and to ask questions; when I get responses I read very carefullly and take your advice. I'm getting ready to graduate college next year and I've got a decision to make. One criticism I hear of my generation is that we are constantly living in the present, incapable of looking toward and planning our future. Well, I'm not like that and here I am trying to plan and look ahead...

Just wanted to give everyone an idea of where I'm coming from...and I've got just a few questions, which may or may not be easy, I don't know. If you could do it all over again, would you? Knowing what you know now would you still make the same choice of being a pilot? (Especially in today's world, and the state of the industry.) What kind of lifestyle do you make for yourself as an airline pilot? I have an idea of the schedules, 4 on 3 off, ect...but more important than that...what kind of life does this make for, that's my question. Does it make family life hard, marriage, raising kids, ect. (As if its not hard enough) Is there a point that you get to where its now just a job, like any other job, except your away from home all the time? In other words, do the negatives begin to outweight the benefits? I guess long story short, what you know now would you do it all over again? I understand what flying big jets around would be like; I know that aspect of it, I'm more interested in the life you make for yourself and your family.

After graduation, I've got a decision to make as far as taking the steps necessary to be a pilot or go another direction outside of aviation...law school; of course I don't even really know what that would be like either...anyone know of a lawyer message board...?! Sorry for the length, just wanted to make sure I said everything. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read and reply.

Langston "LT" Theis

 

[blzr]

YOu have to do what you LOVE. Most pilots I know have wanted to be pilots since they were little kids. Do what makes you happy.
Just remember, there are PLENTY of lawyers out there struggling to survive, just like pilots.

It's not something to be persued casually, just understand that it's not the easiest way to make a living (PILOT), neither is being a lawyer.

 

[IAHERJ]

Do what is in your gut. I would have been a 5th generation attorney. I chose aviation because it was my passion. I was lucky in my timing of graduation from college and choice of regional carriers etc. I'm at AirTran and they happen to be a healthy carrier during a time in this industry when most carriers face an uncertain future. My company could very well end up in the precarious situation some others are in now sometime down the road. Nobody really knows for sure what the airline industry of the future will look like.

I will say that in my second year at my carrier, I'm making more than the associates at my father's law firm. I'll upgrade next year and be making more than the average attorney in Texas. I only bring that up to show just how the legal profession in Texas( where it seems you live) has become saturated. You think the avaition profession has beocme a dog eat dog world? I know attorneys who are applying for paralegal positions at firms in the Houston area with the hope that down the road it might lead to an interview for an associate job. Not much different than a guy/girl comming out of college and flying for a large regional for a few years then looking for SWA/JetBlue/AirTran/Frontier or any other carrier currently hiring.

I fully expect Continental and Northwest to be the first Majors to hire pilots again and become the two most healthy carriers among the legacy carriers beginning late next year. This will start the process of a "tournaround" in this industry. Low Fare Carriers will be long term career options as they have retirement plans and 6 figure incomes. the big 3 "regional" carriers become career carriers as well with added retirement plans and larger equipment.

All in all I wouldn't give up on an airline career just yet. I think we have seen the worst. Yes I fully expect to see a liquidation sometime next year as well as some furloughs at ATA. Most other carriers will be able to pick up the pilots effected by an ATA furlough and some of the pilots at a licquidated carrier who still want to fly for a few years.

Yes, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I really can't think of anything I'd rather do. If my carrier were to lay me off next week, I'd probably hit the streets and find some job flying somewhere. It might be a huge paycut but it is in my blood and I'd find something.

If you think I'm crazy, then you might want to rethink a career in this business. It is bound to bring many happy moments along with some dissapointment. Good luck!!!

IAHERJ

 

[sleepy]

"I will say that in my second year at my carrier, I'm making more than the associates at my father's law firm. I'll upgrade next year and be making more than the average attorney in Texas."

You mean that you can make $100,000 in your second year at AirTran? That is what associates start at here in Atlanta with any good law firm. I thought starting pay at Airtran was around $35,000. That is a big jump from $35K to over $100K in the second year. What is third year Captain pay at AirTran?

 

[73belair]

Lets keep in mind that no one goes to a major right away, or even an LCC, or depending on time not even a regional. So where are you in asking this question? Each step is a step up, but it takes TIME to move up each step. And even at the majors these days life is hard. Being junior anywhere is also hard.
If I could do it differently would I? Hmm... I'd still learn to fly and have fun with that, but I'd do something that would allow me to actually afford to fly for fun.

 

[roughneck]

I would certainly do it again. I just would have started flying directly out of college and not waited a few years. I would have gotten a 737 type rating sooner as well.

Go with your gut.

BTW an average 2nd year SWA F/O (flying 100 trips per month) will make a gross of $86,400 without counting per diem, profit sharing, stock options, 401K match etc.

 

[NTXPilot]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I love flying, I know that much for sure...It's just come to my attention that whatever choice I make truly is a life-altering decision; true there's always time later to change careers, but it is a lot harder. I knew there would come a time when my little dream world called college would end....sigh...

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

To this day I regret becoming an airline pilot. All I have to show for eleven years of flying in both the military and commercial aviation is a worthless seniority number at a major airline after being furloughed three years ago. If I am lucky, I might get recalled in four or five years but by then I will be pushing 40 and I will once again be near the bottom of a large seniority list with little or no job security. On the other hand, I do not at all regret my military training and experience. In fact, if I had to do it over again, I would have put in a full 20 years in the military and not even have gotten involved in commercial aviation. I would encourage all young pilots just starting out to seriously consider a career in the military or perhaps some sort of government flying job. The good thing is is that you are at least doing your research and asking questions. Best of luck to you (you will need it if you enter this profession).

 

[vetteracer]

I would go ahead and do it. Living with regrets is harder then living with failure.

Don’t get over focused on the Majors. Go the usual route, instruct, do some 135 here and there and then go on to a regional. You may find a happy place along the way.

You may find some great 135 job that pays fairly well and allows you to be home almost every night.

Whatever you life seems to demand, you will have had a taste of many flavors of aviation and can choose the one that best suits you.

Also if you get the regionals or majors and decide it is not for you, you will have made many contacts and friends along the way, as well as experience in many environments that would make you a good candidate for re-hire.

The military is a choice to consider as well. The training is great, the pay is good and you get to fly some of the best equipment and see the world. (That’s what the brochure says anyway!).

Aviation is not going away. It is re-shaping itself and a lot of things are changing. This is not unique to aviation. The medical field is under attack from personal injury and the legal field is flooded as well. Engineering jobs are flooded as well.

I think you are going to see a massive hiring boom in 07, the signs are starting to show their head. So if you are interested in aviation, hit the ground running and poise yourself to be employed in the next few years.



Mark

 

[klhoard]

Beat the bushes and find a National Guard or Reserve unit. You will get military pilot training, lots of good contacts in the commercial flying world, and if you decide you want to go active duty it is surely only one phone call away.

 

[psysicx]

Why do you assume that an attroney makes over 100,000 dollars after there second year.It takes a lot of time just to make partner at most firms.People think that all attroneys make bank but its not true.Go look in the yellow pages there are tons of them out there.

 

[IAHERJ]

Sleepy, If you can start at six figures at a respectable Atlanta firm, congratulations. I am proud of you. Airtran is not a first stop for a pilot in an airline career. It takes a few years of either military service or regional flying to be marketable at Airtran. First year pay is around 50K.
I made about $50,000 my first year at AirTran. That was a decrease in pay from Continental Express(5th year 145 CA pay). Second year pay is in the 60's. Unless you graduate from an Ivy League Law center you will start out as an attorney with a big firm at about 50-60K a year in Texas. You will not have a B-fund. Second year might be anywhere from 60-100K at most firms. I have a good freind who started at a big firm at over 100K, but she was a Harvard Law graduate. Her firm is the largest in Houston (BB). Even she claims that those days are probably over. I plan on upgrading before my 30th birthday at AAI and the pay is over 100K. Granted the 4 plus years spent at the regional were relatively low paying, they paid more than attending law school. If I earn 120,000 to 200,000 for the next 30 years at AAI(current contract discounting a change in the companies financial health on the negative side or any larger aircraft on the positive side), I will earn more than the average attorney in Texas. Not trying to start any contraversy here, just stating the facts. Not all attorneys will work for large firms. Not all pilots fly for large airlines. My father has said repedely that he would not reccomend a legal career for anyone these days that doesn't plan on attending an Ivy league school or a major university law center.Thousandsof pilots fly king airs and barons for a living. Most small jet corporate captains earn less than a 2nd or 3rd year AAI first officer. For many, the quality of life they have working in small towns is worth it. Some don't have 4 year degrees and thus their career expectations are limited to corporate or a small regional unless they have somebody important in the know at an airline.

IAHERJ

 

[ultrarunner]

If I had to do it again, I'd have married money sooner than I did.

 

[Purple Haze]

If you could do it all over again, would you? Yes.
Knowing what you know now would you still make the same choice of being a pilot? Yes.
...what kind of life does this make for? Everything is relative. I have 15 or more days each month off - no pager, no "take-home" work - OFF. That is pretty good family time.
Does it make family life hard, marriage, raising kids, etc. These things are not easy for anyone. I made the decision before I started pursuing a flying career that if at any point my wife was less than 100% commited to my flying, I would stop and do something else. It takes a strong woman to put up with your "climb." Nothing is worth sacrificing your marriage. At this point in my career, flying does not make family life hard - just the opposite. We have time together, a good income, and I love my job. But it took a while to get here.
Is there a point that you get to where its now just a job, like any other job, except your away from home all the time? No. It is far superior to anything else I can imagine - for me.
In other words, do the negatives begin to outweight the benefits? No - but if I was furloughed I would likely be giving you different answers (just being honest).
...would you do it all over again? Without a doubt.
I took the military route and ended up liking it, so I stayed 20 (there is something good about job security). But I saw many marriages self destruct because of all the time away from home. I am now with FedEx and life has never been better.
Whatever you choose will involve sacrifice and much time away from home. How many hours a day and how many days a week will practicing law require? I am guessing you will also bring much of that work home with you. Since flying is so unpredictable, you need a strong backup plan anyway -- sounds like you have a good one.
Follow your passion, but have an alternate plan. Best of luck on your decision.

 

[Heavy Set]

If you could do it all over again, would you? Yes.
Knowing what you know now would you still make the same choice of being a pilot? Yes.
...what kind of life does this make for? Everything is relative. I have 15 or more days each month off - no pager, no "take-home" work - OFF. That is pretty good family time.
Does it make family life hard, marriage, raising kids, etc. These things are not easy for anyone. I made the decision before I started pursuing a flying career that if at any point my wife was less than 100% commited to my flying, I would stop and do something else. It takes a strong woman to put up with your "climb." Nothing is worth sacrificing your marriage. At this point in my career, flying does not make family life hard - just the opposite. We have time together, a good income, and I love my job. But it took a while to get here.
Is there a point that you get to where its now just a job, like any other job, except your away from home all the time? No. It is far superior to anything else I can imagine - for me.
In other words, do the negatives begin to outweight the benefits? No - but if I was furloughed I would likely be giving you different answers (just being honest).
...would you do it all over again? Without a doubt.
I took the military route and ended up liking it, so I stayed 20 (there is something good about job security). But I saw many marriages self destruct because of all the time away from home. I am now with FedEx and life has never been better.
Whatever you choose will involve sacrifice and much time away from home. How many hours a day and how many days a week will practicing law require? I am guessing you will also bring much of that work home with you. Since flying is so unpredictable, you need a strong backup plan anyway -- sounds like you have a good one.
Follow your passion, but have an alternate plan. Best of luck on your decision.

Great post!

 

[AlbieF15]

Get a good degree in something you love OUTSIDE aviation, then chase your aviation dream. You'll be in much better shape for plan B if plan A hits a snag.

With my degree in aviation management, I'd be washing cars if I had failed out of pilot training. Then again, maybe the lack of "other" options kept me focused and help me be successful in any of my training.

FYI..."Furloughed Gal" is a licensed attorney who left the practice to chase her flying dreams. I'll be there are more than a few who gave up "other" jobs to come to aviation, as well as a few who left it to find a desk job. Maybe we can cajole a few into sharing their stories....

 

[Jim Smyth]

Yes I would do it all over again. ;-)

I hope my son will take up the same carrer path as I have and his grandfather before him. My Dad worked for American Airlines and retired with 45 years senority. He started as a baggage handler part time while in high school. After graduating Highschool he went into the Military and got his A&I ticket (Now A&P ticket, Mechanics license) and came back to work for American full time when he got out of the military. He swung wrenches for 8 years appling to become a Flight Engineer every chance he got. In 1959 he went to FE school and sat sideways for 35 years after that. He was very fortunate to work for one Airline his whole career. At that time people never left the Airline they worked for ,they either retired or died. But times do change.

I came up the flight instructor route. Moved into part 135 Charter operations. Got hired at Midway Airlines in the 80's. Midway went out of business in 1991. I got on with Southwest Airlines in 1992. Been up's and down's along my aviation path but for the most part it's been a great ride.

Currently the Airline industry is in the worst tailspin I have ever seen in my lifetime. Unfortunatly some airlines wont survive this downturn and some new ones will be born from there ashes. It's survival of the fitest like any other business out there. It will come back in time and even today, in it's present form it's still a better than average job with benefits.

Best of luck in your future endevors.

 

[MDP727]

Go to law school then pursue the flying career! Never depend on your flying endeavors to determine your financial quality of life. As long as you continue to work for someone else you become less likely to become wealthy.

 

[Resume Writer]

After graduation, I've got a decision to make as far as taking the steps necessary to be a pilot or go another direction outside of aviation...law school; of course I don't even really know what that would be like either...anyone know of a lawyer message board...?! Sorry for the length, just wanted to make sure I said everything. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read and reply.

Langston "LT" Theis

Here is my suggestion about the lawyer gig. Go do an internship before you graduate. If you cannot do that, go sit down with a few lawyers and have them give you the skinny on their job.

The best avenue for ANY career is to talk to the people that work in that field. I always suggest my college students do internships. My quote to them is this: "Internships, do them early, do them often." Not only will you get an idea of the career, but you will have something valuable to put on your resume and great connections in that field after graduation.

Kathy

 

[vetteracer]

Jim Symth

Nice post. Great story to encapsulate the last 60 years.

Mark