If You Are Applying to NetJets

[niteflyr]

You are right Griz, I yield to your correctness due to all of your past airline union experience. I have no idea what I am talking about. Guess we should all just shut up on this page too. Agree with us or go away...Union page motto...

 

[flx757]

More cowbell

Guess what?? I got a feevah. And the only prescription is more cowbell...

http://www.weebls-stuff.com/testy/cowbell.swf

 

[niteflyr]

"The new MEC running is a good mix of retired and furloughed airline folks who can, for once, make a difference."

I have worked under airline unions, with experienced airline guys running them, and they still sucked. Why should the fact that they are a mix as stated above make it good for us? Seems logical to me, but whatever!

I will gladly vote for a new MEC if convinced they have a better way of handling things but not just solely on the fact they are furloughed and retired airline pilots. This all seems logical to me. Talk about writing from emotion almost as bad as winning votes based on emotions toward the current MEC.

 

[wingnutt]

dam griz...be honest now, you waited patiently and sat with your finger hovering over the "reply" button until exactly 00:00...didnt you

 

[Heavy Set]

The lack of a good/improved contract SHOULD pi$$ a lot of people off at Netjets. No doubt about it. Everyone seems concerned and upset. However, life at Netjets is not gloom and doom for everyone there. I have some friends who, despite being pi$$ed off about the lack of good progress on the contract, really enjoy their jobs. There are worse jobs out there than flying a Citation X, G200 or Falcon 2000 around the country. Flying these nice/advanced airplanes on a wide variety of routes and on a 7/7 schedule should be viewed as an improvement vs. a lot of airline jobs. Plus, don't expect the airlines to be paying THAT MUCH MORE money in the future anyway - airlines like Jet Blue, Spirit, and soon-to-be Virgin America will continue to bring the bar down lower and lower. Sure, 1st through 3rd year pay at Netjets is waaaaay too low - but don't expect a lot better elsewhere in a few years.

I hope you guys eventually get the better contract you deserve - and the sooner the better. But, there seems to be a lot of negativity and you should also consider some of the positives (maybe there are only a few positives in your minds) sometimes. Life is too short to be pi$$ed off all the time...

In the meantime, enjoy your Citation X flying into Aspen - you won't do much of that flying when you leave for low-paying Virgin America...

Happy flying!

 

[flyr4hire]

you're dreamin

Don't know why you felt that you needed to speak for your firends BUT fact is most frac pilots aren't toolin' around in Falcons or Gulfstreams or Xs. Yes we do get to fly into Aspen, sometimes twice in one day... on legs 2 and 6. The nightlife in Aspen, Jackhole, Palm Springs, etc is great too... that is trying to find something/get in somewhere to eat after being up for 14 hours and then geting the oportunity to drop $40 on the meal because your system is threatening to shutdown from "crew meal OD". As a 2 1/2 year FO in a small cabin, with no upgrade on the horizon, I, AND MANY, MANY of my friends will never see a job in one of the large cabins that you describe as such a pleasure to fly. In addition, the 7&7 (or 8&7) schedule, and "exotic" locations does not make up for the miserable pay... which is why so many of us are looking for one of those other jobs with low pay (yeah right) but no cleaning lavs, cleaning up after pets/kids, etc.

 

[On Your Six]

Griz,

Seriously - try to find employment elsewhere - and fast! If I were you, I'd consider another profession - you are seriously negative. Perhaps you'd rather sit behind a desk all day.

 

[airbaker]

Might want to check your facts about what is driving down salaries. I expect nothing lower than this pay scale. One of the LCC's you quoted as being part of the problem.

http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/jetblue/jetblue.htm

Year Capt FO

12 $139 $76
11 $136 $76
10 $133 $76
9 $131 $75
8 $128 $74
7 $126 $74
6 $123 $73
5 $121 $72
4 $118 $67
3 $116 $61
2 $113 $56
1 $110 $51

​

70 * $121 = $8470 per month
$8470 * 12 = $101,640 per year

I just wanted to set the record straight regarding JetBlue's payscale. Remember that every hour flown above 70 is paid at 1.5x. So in this example, a 5th year Captain would be making $181.50/hr for every hour above 70. It's very, very common to fly lines that have over 85 hours in a month. BTW, you'd still get between 14-19 days off a month too. Even if you were the most junior guy on the property, you'd get a reserve guarentee of 75 hours, not 70. Reserves are currently running about 1-2 months max. I think our average W2 for Captains last year was 130K+, with many guys (check airmen and guys that live local and pick up extra flying) making well over 200K/yr. This doesn't include the extra $$ in profit sharing (15% average), 401K match (3%), 6000 shares of stock (could make you a millionaire, or wallpaper for the bathroom), and CSPP (company stock purchase plan).


Good luck in your negotiations guys, I seriously think you deserve a huge raise!

 

[On Your Six]

Thanks for your concern. I'll look you up the next time I need a therapist. Until then, why not have a steaming cup of shut the hell up.

http://www.t-shirtrank.com/banners/128.jpg

Mmmmm Ok......

 

[MotoX]

When I first came to NutJets I was just using it as a stepping stone. Had a couple of interviews set up and then 9-11. Decided that this would be the place I would make my home because of the "great contract". I have had MEC members try and talk me out of going to the airlines. Saying how great this company would be. Let me tell ya. It sucks here right now. Long hours (12 to 14), legal turns (until you cry uncle), changing schedules and early wakeup calls are the norm. 12 to 14 hour days, which will be filled with several flights, CYA and taking care of paxs between them. The only good time to eat is during a flight.

I am so tired when I come home from a tour. Have flown for the commuters and it was cake compared to this job. I honestly don't know how anyone can make this place a career. Even when we are slow, the schedulers make us sit at the airport on "hot standby" for several hours at a time. It's almost as if they don't want crews to get any rest while on the road. You will fly the best airplanes, get plenty of jet time, type rating to boot, and get the best experience. My learning curve was vertical when I first got here! Besides that, you will work your tail off and be paid very little for it.

I think I will take my chances with the airlines!

 

[Snakeplt]

Most of the FOOLS that tell you the quality of life at NUTJETS is better than the airlines have NEVER BEEN TO THE AIRLINES...OR they worked for the worst-of-the-worst regionals (TSA, MESA, etc...) so their comparison is "skewed." If you are considering applying at NUTjets, please SERIOUSLY consider applying to the regionals and then comparing both options objectively. The "disgruntled" posts on this message board are TRUE observations and you should take them seriously. NUTJETS is NOT a place to come to make a CAREER...not a place to build PIC TIME...AND DEFINITELY NOT A PLACE TO COME FOR QUALITY OF LIFE. Those that LOVE IT HERE, are drunk on koolaid, have been here too long, probably have no perspective and probably came from some crappy piston recip BARON cargo job and are just "tickled" to be a jet captain... The management here SUCKS and they lie through their teeth... Our MEC is EXTREMELY WEAK too !!!
NUTJETS IS NOT A GOOD PLACE....DON'T APPLY TO NUTJETS !!!!

 

[hawkerpilot]

What They Say Is True....

You would have to be absolutely insane to come here under the present conditions. What you are hearing about the conditions here by those who have posted above is completely TRUE. In fact, they are probably holding back!!

Is the X fun to fly? Sure if you like sitting on a Coca Cola crate for 5 or 6 hours at a time and flying close to the legal limit every day of your tour. 14 on/10 off then do it all over again for the princely sum of 28000/year.

Do yourself a favor and look elsewhere...

 

[FrontierFan]

Now I have been reading the fractional threads for months while I was sending my stuff in. I finally got called for an interview and tried to procrastinate it as far off into the future to give the MEC more time to possibly get a TA so I can make a more informed decision about leaving where I am know for NetJets.

However..... from what I understand the word on the taxiway is that new-hires will only have those five cities to live in. So for me I would like to get in after a TA is published but before it gets voted in. My biggest worry is getting in, going on strike and being put between walking and getting fired, for being on probation, or staying and being called a scab the rest of my life.

I would really appreciate all the NetJets regulars on this board to give me their opinion on what I should do. And yes I am going to interview, no I am not interested in breaking up your deserved unity and yes I do believe that a "better" NetJets can be good long term career. "Better" meaning not having to live in 5 cities and 5th year pay being at least 85.


I forgot to add that I went through a contract negotiation where I am now and we couldn't get a TA until after we passed a strike vote of 96%. That is why I respect everyones onions while taking them with a grain of salt. I understand that in the eleventh hour a good portion of the pilot group will be disgruntled enough to comment about how their xyz company is the worst every and no one should come work there.

If however I could understand if everyone is trying to get new hires to shy away so your MEC will have more leverage for a TA. That makes sense. Again I have wanted to come on board for a long time. But I don't want to disturb your unity in these critical times. But if given an offer I can't accept the proposed five city issue.

Comments and PMs welcome

Thanks Again,

F9Fan

 

[Majik]

We may see a proposal before October. As we know it now, that proposal will contain different standards for people hired after the ratification and will require them to use one of five RCAs. I hope that proposal is voted down but you never know how people will vote.

I feel strongly that we will elect a new MEC this October. A strong slate has already been organized and I am hopeful they will be elected. I also feel strongly that, unlike the previous MEC, they will not support any proposal that requires new hires to use RCAs while previous hires enjoy an expanded gateway system. They will also not allow the company to continue to drag out negotiations without responding appropriately and aggressively.

I would prefer that nobody accept a job offer with NJA until this all gets sorted out. If you accept a job prior to the new contract and we do have to strike, you will have placed yourself in a very bad situation - honor the strike while on probation and lose your job or cross the line and be a scab for life.

I suggest you at least wait until November, when you should have more information to make a decision.

 

[On Your Six]

What would improve the situation beyond pay?

With all of the negativity, my question is:

1. What 2-3 things would improve the situation BEYOND a pay raise (of course you should get a raise)?

No company will ever be perfect. But what sorts or improvements (that are realistic) could actually improve the situation for you beyond more cash? Do you not think that the 7/7 schedule is a good one (if you have the seniority to bid it)? If you were on the 7/7, would that not improve things if you are not already on it?

Not trying to flame here - just want to know what "realistic" improvements would make Netjets a better place to be considering that no aviation outfit is ever perfect.... Working for the airlines is getting worse too...

 

[FrontierFan]

I can understand where you are coming from and I am sure you can speak for a good percentage of the pilot group. I would like to believe that I have a similar belief structure as to what should be in the new TA and how it will get worked out. In a perfect world everything will be coming together sooner than later.

I know every one is different but in my personal situation everyday I am not at NetJets is another day I am at a contract carrier regional. So everyday I go to work I am going back and forth to BOS or LGA or DCA again and again and again and again. I am logging worthless SIC time and not making any money while I am doing it and there for not advancing my life by making payments on student loans or investing or collecting equity in purchesing a home.

This is all part of paying yet more dues to get to the left seat. I am getting closer to a captain upgrade but that is worthless when I am planning on leaving anyway. I know, I'm crazy for even considering such a thing as leaving before upgrade. I have already heard the gospel of getting to the left seat to log the golden 1,000 PIC Jet. Why? Well to go to Jetblue of course. Everyone knows that as soon as you get your PIC Jet, Airtran and Jetblue and Southwest will be at your doorstep.

I understand that fractional flying is very different than the regionals but I would not mind those types of stresses compared to what we do daily.

By not coming to NetJets until November I am deciding to waste the next four months of seniority at a new company that will be a decent place to be some time in the future. I have not read any articles recently in the Money section of the USA today describing how the fractionals are going to be in the desert by the end of the decade. However I did see the one where the economists are forecasting the RJ market will be chalked up to another paradigm shift.

NetJets was always my goal but after 9/11 single pilot night freight couldn’t cut it so I had to go get some more turbine time. 1200hrs later I learned a lot like....Glass cockpit procedures, Flight Level Flying in the Northeast, and the fact that regionals totally blow. I should take that back. If you just graduated from All ATPs, Comair, or whatever other kind of 90 day wonder schools are out there. Than the regionals are definitely for you. We even hired one guy who had no idea what a P-51 Mustang, J-3 Cub, or Pitts Special was. But all of his time was in the state of Florida by him either getting of giving instruction, which is nice.

I know that things are grim now but from what I have read and understand the NetJets pilot group will not be worn down to accepting a sub-par contract instead of making huge improvements for the future. I am literally betting my family's future on the strength of the pilot group and I would rather come in now and have a vote for that future rather than continue living in poverty for no reason except to come to NetJets after the contract is finalized which no one seems to know when that will be especially if a new MEC is voted in. I do believe that if a new MEC is put to a vote and brought in than a better contract is possible but it won't be coming any sooner. During that time the new MEC can re-gather and reorganize a new plan of attack and than we will see.

I don't mean any offence to anyone. It just gets frustrating to try to figure out the code of enjoying your profession while providing for your family. I know that every one has there own story too with there own hardships. I firmly believe that if it was easy than everyone would be here and that is why we have a responsibility of fighting for our worth.

Good Luck to the NetJets Fraternal Brotherhood of Teamsters

Regards

F9Fan

 

[Flex]

"Better" meaning not having to live in 5 cities and 5th year pay being at least 85.

Hey Frontier Fan:
That attitude is the last thing we need right now. We are trying to get decent pay, we don't need another low pay vote, thank you very much. We have families and have been fighting for a decent contract for years now. The last thing we need is someone to come in with the attitude: "85 at five years is OK with me!" Do us a favor and stay at your regional job.
Don't come here looking for PIC time, you won't get any. Upgrade is OVER two years right now. You are probably making more in your jungle jet in the right seat than you will make here on FO pay. You will upgrade faster if you stay put, you will make more money too. Wait until the contact is done. If you have already interviewed, get a written offer of employment from Netjets, and delay your class date until you see chatter on this board about a REAL TA being circulated, THEN call and get a class. Easy. Don't come here now, YOU WILL BE SORRY.

 

[Majik]

I was trying to find the words and Flex said it perfectly. I agree.

 

[Hoot R. Hunter]

I would prefer that nobody accept a job offer with NJA until this all gets sorted out. If you accept a job prior to the new contract and we do have to strike, you will have placed yourself in a very bad situation - honor the strike while on probation and lose your job or cross the line and be a scab for life.

First off, I'm not at NJA, or any other frax for that matter.

If at some point it came to a strike, wouldn't the union demand that any/all probies fired for failing to cross be immediately reinstated with clean personnel files as a condition of the strike settlement?

Just wonderin'..........

 

[Majik]

I don't know why probationary pilots are not protected under our agreement. I don't know the history and cannot guess why they were not covered. Maybe the company wanted the option to show them the door during the first year without the union interference. But, since they are not protected, it would be terrible to be placed in that position (be a scab or be fired), hence the advice to wait.

 

[Hoot R. Hunter]

I don't know of any agreement, union or non-union, that contains much in the way of probationary job protections (especially for failing to go to work). I was just commenting that a union would have to take a stand of: "We don't return until any fired probationary pilots return". After all, any probationary pilot who fails to cross is providing leverage to your cause and is depending on your support. Just another move in the chess match to be considered. That said, your advice to wait is probably well-heeded on two fronts........it avoids unnecessary pressure on the new hire and provides you with yet additional leverage if slots go unfilled. Whether it will be taken is yet another thing........

Anyway, no more from this section of the peanut gallery.

Best of luck to you all!

 

[Snakeplt]

This may be more common than I think but here at STUPIDASSJETS, you actually pay dues during your first year of employment, ALL THE WHILE THEY TELL YOU THAT YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROTECTION !!!! The Teamsters are CROOKS and if Hoffa Jr. were to ever get WHACKED like daddy, I certainly wouldn't shed a tear...they are all crooked as hell !!!

 

[FatesPawn]

If at some point it came to a strike, wouldn't the union demand that any/all probies fired for failing to cross be immediately reinstated with clean personnel files as a condition of the strike settlement?

Yes.

And, if they don't, you didn't want to work here anyway. Obviously, with that type of shortsightedness they certainly couldn't represent your interests very well.

 

[Hoot R. Hunter]

Snakeplt:

Didn't know that......never heard of probies paying dues.

FatesPawn:
Agreed!

Best of luck!

 

[Correcting]

I don't think us NJA guys that support the "StrongUnion" slate are naive enough to believe that they will suddenly get the contract done a month after they are elected.

We support them because we have become disillusioned with our current MEC due to their total lack of communication and transparency in the negotiations. They share little, if any, information with us. They let harmful rumors fester until their heart's content. They don't take a hardline on contract enforcement. They simply let contract violations slide because of their belief that the new contract will fix everything. Their relationship with management has become too "buddy-buddy". Yes, it's important to have a good working relationship with management. The current MEC thinks they have this. BUT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RESPECT OF MANAGEMENT. Therefore, management walks all over them and us.

We need an MEC that will bring us the RESPECT we deserve from management. We need an MEC that will fight every contract violation no matter how small. We need an MEC that will be open and honest with the membership and will communicate important information in straight-forward terms rather than secretive double-talk that leaves us with more questions than answers.

 

[hawkerpilot]

Majik and Flex Summed It Up

NJA as it is right now completely SUCKS!! Stay at your regional and you will at least upgrade eventually. I am one of those FO's (on FO pay) of whom they speak and I have almost two years served with no upgrade in sight. And dont believe ANY of the BS they feed you during the interview...they are having an awful time finding anyone to jump on this train wreck so they might try to be overly optimistic.

 

[jonjuan]

Believe me, when things get better, there'll be no shortage of morons bragging about it.

How prophetic.

 

[n7715x]

I can understand where you are coming from and I am sure you can speak for a good percentage of the pilot group. I would like to believe that I have a similar belief structure as to what should be in the new TA and how it will get worked out. In a perfect world everything will be coming together sooner than later.

I know every one is different but in my personal situation everyday I am not at NetJets is another day I am at a contract carrier regional. So everyday I go to work I am going back and forth to BOS or LGA or DCA again and again and again and again. I am logging worthless SIC time and not making any money while I am doing it and there for not advancing my life by making payments on student loans or investing or collecting equity in purchesing a home.

This is all part of paying yet more dues to get to the left seat. I am getting closer to a captain upgrade but that is worthless when I am planning on leaving anyway. I know, I'm crazy for even considering such a thing as leaving before upgrade. I have already heard the gospel of getting to the left seat to log the golden 1,000 PIC Jet. Why? Well to go to Jetblue of course. Everyone knows that as soon as you get your PIC Jet, Airtran and Jetblue and Southwest will be at your doorstep.

I understand that fractional flying is very different than the regionals but I would not mind those types of stresses compared to what we do daily.

By not coming to NetJets until November I am deciding to waste the next four months of seniority at a new company that will be a decent place to be some time in the future. I have not read any articles recently in the Money section of the USA today describing how the fractionals are going to be in the desert by the end of the decade. However I did see the one where the economists are forecasting the RJ market will be chalked up to another paradigm shift.

NetJets was always my goal but after 9/11 single pilot night freight couldn’t cut it so I had to go get some more turbine time. 1200hrs later I learned a lot like....Glass cockpit procedures, Flight Level Flying in the Northeast, and the fact that regionals totally blow. I should take that back. If you just graduated from All ATPs, Comair, or whatever other kind of 90 day wonder schools are out there. Than the regionals are definitely for you. We even hired one guy who had no idea what a P-51 Mustang, J-3 Cub, or Pitts Special was. But all of his time was in the state of Florida by him either getting of giving instruction, which is nice.

I know that things are grim now but from what I have read and understand the NetJets pilot group will not be worn down to accepting a sub-par contract instead of making huge improvements for the future. I am literally betting my family's future on the strength of the pilot group and I would rather come in now and have a vote for that future rather than continue living in poverty for no reason except to come to NetJets after the contract is finalized which no one seems to know when that will be especially if a new MEC is voted in. I do believe that if a new MEC is put to a vote and brought in than a better contract is possible but it won't be coming any sooner. During that time the new MEC can re-gather and reorganize a new plan of attack and than we will see.

I don't mean any offence to anyone. It just gets frustrating to try to figure out the code of enjoying your profession while providing for your family. I know that every one has there own story too with there own hardships. I firmly believe that if it was easy than everyone would be here and that is why we have a responsibility of fighting for our worth.

Good Luck to the NetJets Fraternal Brotherhood of Teamsters

Regards

F9Fan

Looks like FrontierFan was right

 

[Balou]

Hire this man !

 

[FLYLOW22]

Snakeplt:

Didn't know that......never heard of probies paying dues.

FatesPawn:
Agreed!

Best of luck!

Never heard of the same pilots having voting rights from day 1 either...

We need to get guys protected though if they are going to pay dues in their 1st year.