If XJ liquidates.......????

[Rossa]

Serious question, in light of the impending news from NWA-ALPA (how they are going to throw the Airlinkers under the bus) - If XJ liquidates, what happens to their certificates??? This has probably been covered somewhere, but I must have blinked.
In other words, if NWA plans on using a liquidated XJ to place their furloughed guys, could it be done without starting from scratch??

 

[RedDogC130]

What does XJ stand for..airline name.....I keep thinking ExpressJet but obviously not dealing with NWA? Thanks

 

[SplitBar]

Serious question, in light of the impending news from NWA-ALPA (how they are going to throw the Airlinkers under the bus) - If XJ liquidates, what happens to their certificates??? This has probably been covered somewhere, but I must have blinked.
In other words, if NWA plans on using a liquidated XJ to place their furloughed guys, could it be done without starting from scratch??

Yawn! XJ isn't about to liquidate.

XJ = Mesaba

 

[YourPilotFriend]

If the pilots strike, and MAIR chooses to keep the coporate resources intact, AKA the certificate, buildings, gates, and management those resources can be used to form NWA a new regional. It's also interesting to point out, that if this were to happen it would be the cheapest alternative by far. In my opinion, liquidating XJ and using the fuloughed NWA pilots for a new regional is the solution to NWA's problems.

I don't know though, how are negotiations at XJ going?

 

[Rossa]

SplitBar, I'm glad that you exude confidence..........in case you haven't noticed, EVERYTHING is in flux at the red-tail end of things! Anything can happen - don't be surprised if NWA-ALPA unwittingly or otherwise creates a situation which throws XJ pilots under the bus!
From what I see/hear XJ mngt is kicking our ass in court and is refusing to deal with us outside of it! Sure, they're making it look good for the Judge, but the reality is that they have nothing to lose!!

 

[Bringupthebird]

What obligation do NW pilots have to XJ pilots? Are the XJ pilots DEMANDING not to fly the +70 seaters?

I still think a RALPA, Regional Air Line Pilots Association would be far more effective at representing the interests of regional pilots and take ALPA out of the position (of their own making) of double-agent.

 

[SEVEN]

You guys are insane. XJ is right where Doug S wants them....in bankruptcy along with NWA. Mesaba will eventually follow suit with NWA very shortly and probably take 8 to 10 % pay cuts. They will pick up additional 50 seat crj flying and most likely a large share of the 70 seat flying that will eventually replace the AVROs. They all want you to think of how unpredictable the situation is....but when you read the writing on the wall it's very predictable. IT appears to be a chess game, but it's not....it's checkers. The fact is the leadership on the MEC are usually senior pilots who want to keep thier jobs and will NOT strike. They just waste their time with info picketing as part of the scare tactic negotiations process. Don't worry...it will all be over fairly soon....and we will still have our jobs.

 

[Tank Commander]

ALPA was very smart about bringing in the regionals under their wing when they did. Legacy pilots were pissed when ALPA made the announcement of their intent to represent regional pilots. ALPA had reasoning to its madness. ALPA new if it didn't suck-up the regional pilot groups they would one day be facing attorney in court representing regional pilots and their causes. "Keep your friends close, and your enemy's closer".

 

[Dodge]

A pilot strike at XJ would ensure a liquidation. NW wins by replacing XJ pilots with new hires. Cheap. ALPA will never call a strike no matter how ludicrous the forced contract is, for just this reason.

The FA's may all quit. The company's proposal looks quit poor. Liquidation....maybe.

Its a win/win for NW no matter what happens. The pilots either shut the doors and lets NW replace them with new hires. Huge savings. Or the Mesaba pilots take the big C and out Mesa Mesa. NW would then be the darlings of airline management and the pilots would be looked down upon by all in the industry. Great moral buster for future negotiations of the next round of concessions.

It ain't a pretty picture but it sure is vividly drawn.

 

[SplitBar]

SplitBar, I'm glad that you exude confidence..........in case you haven't noticed, EVERYTHING is in flux at the red-tail end of things! Anything can happen - don't be surprised if NWA-ALPA unwittingly or otherwise creates a situation which throws XJ pilots under the bus!
From what I see/hear XJ mngt is kicking our ass in court and is refusing to deal with us outside of it! Sure, they're making it look good for the Judge, but the reality is that they have nothing to lose!!

It's not that I exude confidence. I just don't sit and listen to all of the nay sayer rhetoric. None of the nay sayers gave XJ a chance during contract 04. None of the nay sayers gave NWA ALPA and AFA a chance to get their Chapter 11 talks T/Aed. Now none of the nay sayers are giving XJ a chance to get through their Chapter 11 talks. I could say "I told ya so" to so many people. Lets just see how things pan out at XJ.

 

[flyin backwards]

If the pilots strike, and MAIR chooses to keep the coporate resources intact, AKA the certificate, buildings, gates, and management those resources can be used to form NWA a new regional.

Builldings??? Gates???? We don't own $hit, oh wait I think we own one GPU, but it's broke. Mesaba leases EVERYTHING, the hanger is leased, corporate headquarters are leased, training center is leased, gates are leased. Everthing is leased

 

[xjhawk]

yeah, and if this place is forced into liquidation and the certificate i am flying on right now is used by someone else....and ALPA let it happen...i will be pissed and some way in form those responsible must pay....alpa....MAIR mesaba NWA...come on guys and gals.....why is our union so idiotic and dumb

 

[JustaNumber]

A pilot strike at XJ would ensure a liquidation. NW wins by replacing XJ pilots with new hires. Cheap. ALPA will never call a strike no matter how ludicrous the forced contract is, for just this reason.

Except, if a pilot strike leads to liquidation, and XJ management attempts to keep the same certificate, any new hire pilots definitely would be scabs, no gray area whatsoever. Good luck staffing an airline with complete and total scabs.

 

[Dodge]

Excellent point, JustaNumber. It would be tough....however, NW has had great success with the Scab Mechanics. Everyone has just kinda forgot about them. Oh well. At least Marsha, Tom and the two kids can get down to Disney World out of Brainerd for $219 RT a pop.

All joking aside, it would be hard to staff a scab airline, but I would bet that there are plenty of pilots coming out of the "elite" schools who would risk it if they were offered a CA position withing 6 months. Plus, they know ALPA will forgive and forget. That lesson was taught at Continental.

 

[screwed_again]

If the pilots strike, and MAIR chooses to keep the coporate resources intact, AKA the certificate, buildings, gates, and management those resources can be used to form NWA a new regional. It's also interesting to point out, that if this were to happen it would be the cheapest alternative by far. In my opinion, liquidating XJ and using the fuloughed NWA pilots for a new regional is the solution to NWA's problems.

I don't know though, how are negotiations at XJ going?

YouPilotFriend in NWA's equivalent to Delta's General Lee!!

 

[IHateMgmt]

You have to understand that YourPilotFriend has been furloughed from NWA for quite some time now. Is it any wonder that all his predictions in some way or another end with him getting called back? Thats what he wants, so thats what he thinks. Just the same as all us XJ guys predict not losing our jobs. I'm not trying to justify anyone, I'm just saying anything is possible right now and we shouldn't fight eachother, especially in times like these.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

If XJ happened to liquidate, wouldn't the certificate go away too?

 

[Yudso]

Liquidation= sell everything at rock bottom prices. That includes the certificate. Isn't that what happened at Chicago Express?

 

[CptMurf]

I can tell some of you were not around during contract 04.....

A striking MEC define what is struck work. If XJ strikes, and subsequently liquidates, the striking MEC would STILL have the chance to define the struck work. If the "newly formed" airline was an ALPA carrier, then they could not perform the flights unless they were "SCABS". Also, PNCL, Mainline or any other ALPA carrier could not pick up this flying without crossing a picket line. This will not happen, in any way shape or form.

Secondly, time is on our side. Even if we liquidated, it would take A LOT of time to organize, switch over, staff and certify a new airline. The names may change, but the FAA still has to sign the paperwork, and that never happens fast. This is not a name change that would happen while the airline was operating(ie. ACA - IndyAir), it would all have to be done while the airline is burning cash reserves.NWA and MAIR would fail during this time due to the massive amount of cash that they would be losing.

The third thing to remember is that our scope is with MAIR not Mesaba. If ANY other MAIR airline has more than 19 seats, then that airline is to be staffed with Mesaba pilots. Even if the Mesaba pilots are on strike the will fly for any newly formed MAIR airline.

Just chill out chicken little.....Let's wait and see how this pans out before we blame each other for the others demise.

 

[CptMurf]

Liquidation= sell everything at rock bottom prices. That includes the certificate. Isn't that what happened at Chicago Express?

Actually, there are 3 key people that, if they stay on, the certificate stays intact for a certain length of time. Even if the airline is not operating. One is the Director of MX, one is the Director of Flight Operations, and I believe one other, but I can't remember who they are.

The Chicago Express certificate was lost when the Director of MX left soon after the liquidation.

 

[afres bum]

Why would it be any more difficult for XJ to operate a scab airline than it was for Continental in 1983? Or Eastern in 1989? Or Wein Alaska Airlines (?1978?) or United 1986?

 

[Rossa]

CptMurf,
If our scope is with MAIR (which it is), then why was it on the term sheet from XJ mngt? If it is on the term sheet, and I believe it still is..........then , when the clock runs out in court and the Judge is left with 2 options: Do nothing.............or.............Impose the last term sheet left on the table........What will he do about the scope item??

 

[Dodge]

afres bum,

I believe that it would not. Pilots have proven over and over that there is only one thing to consider when looking at your aviation career. How will this benefit me right now.

Rossa,

Good point. Why is MAIR stock price in the tank? Why is there no P/E ratio? I thought XJ and MAIR are independent of each other. Don't be surprised to see MAIR go next and then all the questions will be answered.

 

[blackbox]

Excellent point, JustaNumber. It would be tough....however, NW has had great success with the Scab Mechanics. Everyone has just kinda forgot about them. Oh well. At least Marsha, Tom and the two kids can get down to Disney World out of Brainerd for $219 RT a pop.

All joking aside, it would be hard to staff a scab airline, but I would bet that there are plenty of pilots coming out of the "elite" schools who would risk it if they were offered a CA position withing 6 months. Plus, they know ALPA will forgive and forget. That lesson was taught at Continental.

I dont know about that, Historically management has never really felt threatened by a mechanics strike. Dont think the NW mechs are the first to walk off job and still have the airline run business as usual. But I dontthink they are that many newbie pilots willing to cross a picket line. *************************s is a gray area and they have a hard time staffing themselves dont they? i hear that they are inviting people to a TSA interview and then offering them a job at GJ. So if XJ tries to staff it when the pilots strike, its pretty black and white, that they would be scabs