If United files chapter 11...

[cl65@350]

I just don't UNDERSTAND GUYS!

well..the original poster said the GOOD, and the BAD that can come from UAL going chapter 11....

Unless all of us REGIONAL pilots want our career expectations flushed down the toilet.........................THEN there is NOTHING GOOD about UAL going chapter 11. No, i don't want to hear posts from 3000 hour crj fo's...it is the CAPT's on the crj with more than a few 1000 hours of PIC that I am talking to...

If UAL goes chapter 11, there will be ramifications industry-wide...thus DELAYING FOLKS our chance of a "real" job! Not to say we don't have good jobs...but do we really want to spend the rest of our lives in the minor leagues? I DON"T...therefore, I do not see ANYTHING good coming from a ual chapter 11 except for junior crj fo's trying to build time...my only question to those folks are....building time for WHAT? You'll have 12K hours of PIC before the big boys hire again if ual goes chapter 11!

 

[sleepy]

Remember that even if United folds (a very unlikely scenario) there will be an awful lot of jets available for the Delta Connection sides of the SkyWest and ACA houses.

We are already at our scope limits. Adding anymore contract carrier airline capacity would mean shrinking ASA or Comair. Unless that was done to attack the ASA union (we are in contract talks) it is unlikely to happen. ASA and Comair both provide more revenue to DAL than any of the contract carriers.

Why would DAL pay more for ACA or Skywest than United? If United gets to renegotiate their contract with these contract carriers under CH 11, then why wouldn't DAL seek to renegotiate their contracts as well?

I don't see how a United CH 11 would have any up-side for these contract carriers.

 

[A4Forever]

GENTLEMEN: Don't be too hasty in thinking that UAL will abrogate all the contracts if they declare C11. It is my understanding that all agreements must remain in place until such time that UAL convinces the bankruptcy judge that they have tried unsuccessfully to reach agreement with the unions to restructure the current contracts.. Only then could the judge allow the agreements to be modified. If that were to happen, it would be "down the road" so to speak. Word on the street is that there will be an additional 550 UAL pilots joining the ranks of the furloughed come Jan 1, 2003 and that a recovery plan is being undertaken with or without bankruptcy.

 

[Booker]

GENTLEMEN: Don't be too hasty in thinking that UAL will abrogate all the contracts if they declare C11. It is my understanding that all agreements must remain in place until such time that UAL convinces the bankruptcy judge that they have tried unsuccessfully to reach agreement with the unions to restructure the current contracts.

To add, it's also my understanding that the unions that have signed TAs thus far (at least ALPA and AFA) also have 1113 letters.

 

[Publishers]

Variations

Under Chapter 11, there are a midrad of things that could happen. Not the least of which is the damage done to current shareholders including the employees who own a substantial portion of the airline.

Secondly, it does not mean that they can just forget their lessors and throw the contracts in the trash. You must remember that there are both operating leases and finance leases.

Likewise, the position of various lenders changes, their may be several types of deals with their regionals.

While Chapter 11 deals with that which has gone on before, it does not mean these same people have to do business with you now. Nor do they have to accept terms now they do not want.

The only positive in this is that the industry is such that the options people have to move aircraft etc are limited

 

[BlueRidger]

"While Chapter 11 deals with that which has gone on before, it does not mean these same people have to do business with you now. Nor do they have to accept terms now they do not want. "

This is almost true. The company in Ch11 can only break the entire contract, not just specific terms within that contract. Also the bankruptcy court judge must approve the breaking of the contract.

"The only positive in this is that the industry is such that the options people have to move aircraft etc are limited"

This is true but I just had a scary thought. If Mesa rejects J4J that means that every airlines with the exception of the WO's and Midway have rejected it and J4J will be a failure. It would then be time for US Airways mgmt to get rid of the whole J4J policy becuse they need RJs ASAP. Then if the UAX carrieres were axed there would be a place for all those RJ's to go. Although, on second thought, UAL will keep the RJ's and just code share those routes.

 

[popilot]

agreed though,UAL going under? Not likely but hey the mechanics seem to want it that way!!

i'd say to look more at the "industry leading" alpa contract. Thanks Duane!!