If i was an owner

[NJA Capt]

Suppose I am suddenly out of work and on the job search.....OK, there is a DA50 position that needs to be crewed in my area...I interview...the pay is 60K/yr...

How can the rest of us compete?

By saying no thanks and walking out of the interview. No-one says you have to accept the low pay.

Now....a certain level of operator is looking for that level of pilot, but still...its rediculous. This is the most simple example of LOWERING THE BAR that I can cite, but Im sure you get it.

I have given this example before too. Everyone says the fracs are "lowering the bar." How are a handful of frac operators bringing down the averages when there are literally THOUSANDS of charter and corps that pay less than we do? Don't give us that cop out. Fracs are just more visible and therefore an easy target.

If the fracs went to $500,000 a year. Do you think the corp depts are going to hike their pay "just because NetJets did?" Yea, Right.
But they all think their little departments are being penalized, "because the fracs do it."

We have 14-19 RONs/month too, are the corp CPs requiring you guys to stay out that long "just because NetJets does?"

PS...you have to consider entry level at the new company too. You don't see Delta 777 capts moving over to American and starting at $250K do you? No, it's back of the bus again. Why, he's got the 777 type and 30 years experience?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

c'mon NJA CAPT,

I aint talking 500K/yr!!!! where's that coming from??

What I am talking is 36K/yr!!!

Dont compare yourselves (and the other fracs) with fly-by night charter ops etc...stepping stone jobs..you guys always promote yourlselves as a career, hang your hat type of place. Thats the comaparisons I care about!

and tell me again how the 777 Capt with 30 years of experience is going to move over to another airline at first year pay? you seen this? ...c'mon...

 

[NJA Capt]

Dont compare yourselves (and the other fracs) with fly-by night charter ops etc...stepping stone jobs..you guys always promote yourlselves as a career, hang your hat type of place. Thats the comaparisons I care about!

and tell me again how the 777 Capt with 30 years of experience is going to move over to another airline at first year pay? you seen this? ...c'mon...

If you go from airline A to airline B, do you think you keep the same pay grade and seniority number? Of course not. You start over in the entry aircraft and pay at airline B.

Don't get technical, 500K was an exaggeration for illustration. My point is, if you are making $X.00 and the fracs "raise the bar" to your X.00+20% (or whatever), do you think your pay is going to go up "just because we did?" Of course not. So why do you think that your pay is held down because ours is repressed?

Old story....let it go.
See ya.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

UHHH...

raise your pay to mine +20%??????
Capt, all Im asking is to stop working for 50% LESS!!!!!

you dont have to "raise the bar" too much, just get the F'n thing off the floor!!!

but you are right....dead issue.....could go on forever.
I wish you a happy career and big success in your future contract.

 

[100-1/2]

TIPS?

In industries where tips are usual and customary, the "expected" rate is 15% of the bill. So, would it not translate to 15% of the charter bill/flight cost? Do the math and realize how rediculous this tip issue is becoming. Before starting my own company, I negotiated my wages when accepting and ONLY AFTER being offered the position. One of my current employees negotiated a higher wage than was presented in the interview. Depending on the position and responsibilities, if you are not doing your research before the interview and potential job offer to find what the industry average salaries are and comparing them to that which is offered, you are likely leaving money on the table. AND YES, even in today's "hard" economy/market, you should be negotiating AFTER the offer and definately, NOT during the interview where pay rates fall in the shadows of typical and median. Companies go to great deliberation to find you to be the best candidate for the job. Present a solid offer with supporting information that justifies your value as an employee worthy of your first raise and they will likely concede to a realistic compromise. BUT, be prepared to accept additional responsibilities not addressed during the interview. If you shrug or balk at this point, you will lose value and probably the job offer. Consider the 'additional' responsibilities as the "above and beyond the call" work and the additional PAY as your tips, IN ADVANCE! Most importantly, once successful in this process of getting the job, DON'T YOU EVER B!T@H here or anywhere else about not getting enough pay or tips for what you are doing. You had your chance to get what you thought you should be paid to do the job when it was offered.

Take pride in the job you do daily. Have enough integrity and self respect to appreciate the job and responsibility you have and do it well. Yes, you are a highly trained and skilled professional. Act like it. I expect to hear about people getting stiffed on a tip at Applebee's, NOT ON THIS BOARD. We are a cut above the rest and hold to a higher standard. Most of all, let your head hit the pillow at night knowing no one else's crew could have done as well as yours this day and sleep sound in that knowledge.

Blue skies and tailwinds my friends.
100-1/2

 

[infoman]

G200,

You are making some excellent points. I will tell you this. We have a MEC working hard, and 1800+ people with a whole boat load of ideas.

Guess what they are:

Pay? Yup
Schedule? Yup
Benefits? Yup

I could go on with the list. The point is simple. We are working hard on improving our life style, just as you have done over the years.

Will it happen soon? Hope so, but don't know.

Fly safe!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Good for you!
when is this supposed to happen?
Is the current state of this industry going to hurt your negotiations?
Good Luck to you all!

 

[swberry]

Why my concern for the 36K/yr Bizjet Captain??

OK, quick example...

Suppose I am suddenly out of work and on the job search.....OK, there is a DA50 position that needs to be crewed in my area..I have a few hours PIC in DA50s and go for it...I interview...the pay is 60K/yr....HOLY $HIT...how can that be?? well...the operator has more than a handful of 36K/yr guys to whom this is a NICE RAISE! They are psyched, finally making a few bucks...great. How can the rest of us compete? Now....a certain level of operator is looking for that level of pilot, but still...its rediculous. This is the most simple example of LOWERING THE BAR that I can cite, but Im sure you get it.

Hey numbnutz, take your very own advise and DON'T take the job!!!!!!! DUHHHHHHH??????? Since you seem to be so distracted by what other people do and make for a living why don"t you take that big time corporate pilot benefit package and start your own business. You can leave this career and you will not have to worry about these fractional pilots dragging down YOUR salary. You can come back to this board and spout all your negativism toward fractional ops and then you can tell me good luck and how much I deserve a raise. Pathetic.....

 

[Gulfstream 200]

you are an embarassment to your fellow pilots!

 

[swberry]

you are an embarassment to your fellow pilots!

You're probably right.......

 

[Live4flyng]

100-1/2

In industries where tips are usual and customary, the "expected" rate is 15% of the bill. So, would it not translate to 15% of the charter bill/flight cost? Do the math and realize how rediculous this tip issue is becoming.

I don't recall any pilots bitching about not being tipped, one just suggested it would be nice. NO , 15% of the bill is out of line, way to take things out of perspective Boss.

you are not doing your research before the interview and potential job offer to find what the industry average salaries are and comparing them to that which is offered, you are likely leaving money on the table.

Define industry average for a Fractional Pilot, since you know so much about it. Seems to me the Leader in fractional aviation is working on "setting the bar" as we speak.

Take pride in the job you do daily. Have enough integrity and self respect to appreciate the job and responsibility you have and do it well. Yes, you are a highly trained and skilled professional. Act like it.

PRIDE, INTEGRITY, SELF RESPECT, APPRECIATION, RESPONSIBILITY, SKILLED PROFESSIONAL......

Jesus, you are a piece of work! Who the hell would want to work for you and your hot dog stand? Obviously you don't know much about Fractionals, and didn't bother doing your research before posting here.