If I get screwed again....

[StarChecker]

Take any JB pilot and put them out of work with no paycheck, I'll bet their old job at JB would look pretty good in short order.

"Come...work at JetBlue. It's better than unemployment."

 

[fam62c]

"Come...work at JetBlue. It's better than unemployment."

Can it really be that bad in the grand scheme of things.......really?

 

[Blue Dude]

Can it really be that bad in the grand scheme of things.......really?

The problem with sentiments of this type is that you fail to provide an adequate frame of reference. What is "the grand scheme of things" anyway? If your frame of reference is "just be happy you have a job" then I guarantee that some bean counter is salivating over hiring you. You set your value too low.

If you compare a job at JetBlue with the average job in the entire U.S., it looks pretty good. But if you compare it with other major airlines, the shortcomings are stark. After a while, you get tired of the rhetoric and just want what has been promised almost from inception but never delivered: average. You feel played for a sucker and just want them to pay up for once instead of swapping one thing for another in yet another zero-sum exercise. You want to feel valued for providing above-average performance and get tired of excuses for below-average compensation. It's hard to feel grateful when you're being taken advantage of.

 

[StarChecker]

Can it really be that bad in the grand scheme of things.......really?

Is it better than unemployment? Ummm....yes

But my sights are set a tad higher than having a career that exceeds the rewards of unemployment.

This pilot group has been repeatedly promised industry average....over and over again. For 12 years we have been promised this...

we are still waiting.....


I'm thrilled to have a job that pays the bills.

I'm really dissatisfied with our compensation package when compared to our peers....NOT THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE.

But if your goal is to have a career that is better than unemployment...or even better than Mesa....The Rob, The Joanna, and The Harry would love to have you. You're their kind of pilot.


I'll even give you my Blue Dart. Just wait until FedEx calls me....I can't handle another one like you.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Is it better than unemployment? Ummm....yes

But my sights are set a tad higher than having a career that exceeds the rewards of unemployment.

This pilot group has been repeatedly promised industry average....over and over again. For 12 years we have been promised this...

we are still waiting.....


I'm thrilled to have a job that pays the bills.

I'm really dissatisfied with our compensation package when compared to our peers....NOT THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE.

But if your goal is to have a career that is better than unemployment...or even better than Mesa....The Rob, The Joanna, and The Harry would love to have you. You're their kind of pilot.


I'll even give you my Blue Dart. Just wait until FedEx calls me....I can't handle another one like you.

Watch out what you ask for... Can you tell me what industry average pay is for a Domestic carrier flying the E170/190? According Airline Pilot Central http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com, salaries at all comparable 170/190 airlines are well below what Jetblue pays. Examples-- at Republic, a 20 year E190 CAPT/FO make 119/37/hr; US Airways 16 year CAPT/FO make 101/58/hr; Compass 18 year 170 CAPT/FO 104/43/hr while JBLU 10 year CAPT/FO make 144/96/hr + 1.5X over 78hrs for premium pay...

Do you really want industry average? Look at A-320 pay at these airlines and see what they pay out vs Jetblue using 10 year pay only CAPT/FO-- US Airways 135/89; United 134/91; Frontier 146/91; Spirit 145/91 while at JBLU 160/107 + 1.5X over 78hrs for premium pay-- as for 320 operators, we only lag behind Delta in pay.

Sooo, for all the "we lag behind industry" folks, maybe you need to look at the numbers again. Especially on the E190 side of the house-- YOU ARE THE BEST PAID E-190 PILOTS OUT THERE TODAY!!! Instead of just blindly saying we lag, maybe you can say we lead?

There is plenty of room for improvements from work rules to healthcare here at JBLU. But in some, if not many cases, we are better than our peers...

 

[Dizel8]

Hey look, it's BB!

Yep, things are swell at bigblue, come on over!

Hmm, I wonder why none of the other major airline pilots are applying here, yet plenty of blue pilots are applying elsewhere or taking recalls. Now why would that be?

 

[Flyby1206]

There is plenty of room for improvements from work rules to healthcare here at JBLU. But in some, if not many cases, we are better than our peers...

I agree that our $/hr rates are higher than some, lower than others, but when you compare the total compensation and benefits package I feel that we are still lagging the average. The insurance premium increase alone is a drastic chop at our $/hr real wage earnings. Retirement as well. Losing 5-8+% contribution compared to peers is huge, especially for someone with 30+yrs to compound the interest on retirement funds invested today.

The best way to ensure our careers are protected is through a CBA. Having a clear and defined expectation of benefits and compensation is valuable. Is my payrate going to keep up with inflation over the next 5 years? I have zero COLA raises in my PEA, so that is a bit frightening. Especially after seeing the teeth pulling it takes to get a 2.2% COLA that is paid 6 months late.

 

[Dizel8]

BB,

You still got a recall number at DAL courtesy of the evil ALPA?

 

[spitfire1500]

But NBC news the other night said the airline industry will need 1 million pilots over the next 10years or so. This time I really believe it,don't you guys?the mass hirings are just around the corner just hold on a little longer.

Ah Ha!!! I know what name Kit Darby post's under now...lol

 

[Blue Dude]

Oh, not this schisse again. Best paid E190 pilots and all that. No comparison to other MAJOR AIRLINE PILOT GROUPS flying comparable equipment or anything like that, just straight model comparison. Republic, Compass. Those are *regional airlines*, dude. WTF, man? And US Airways East is still operating with a 10+ year old bankruptcy contract, based on E190 pay rates that WE SET for them with our low-ball introductory pay. Wake up!

The sad thing is that our esteemed "peers" at Republic and Compass might trail us in pay but they probably have better benefits. Read that again. Two REGIONAL AIRLINES have better benefits than we do. What do they have that we don't?

That's not a rhetorical question.

 

[StarChecker]

Oh, not this schisse again. Best paid E190 pilots and all that. No comparison to other MAJOR AIRLINE PILOT GROUPS flying comparable equipment or anything like that, just straight model comparison. Republic, Compass. Those are *regional airlines*, dude. WTF, man? And US Airways East is still operating with a 10+ year old bankruptcy contract, based on E190 pay rates that WE SET for them with our low-ball introductory pay. Wake up!

BoB BAYOU will never wake up. He doesn't want to. He's got his top 5% seniority, upgraded in months, never really sat reserve. He bids turns and layovers at home. He and his family also enjoy their health insurance and retirement from the US Coast Guard....so he really doesn't care about the rest of us.

This is his first airline, but he'll be happy to spout off about union negotiations and what I have to give up from my below average compensation in order to get something back....

He's a nightmare. Pure and simple...ignorant and self-absorbed....touting his own uniquely bloated salary to 3-year FO's who will never have what he has.

Just ignore him and hope he doesn't influence any more simpletons than he already has.

 

[J32driver]

Hey Blue Bayou,

History question: Who set the nations 190 rates? Hint... it was jetBlue. Airways had our pay rates tossed in their face. That is why they are paid what they are, because we screwed the industry and they haven't negotiated a new pay rate yet.

 

[Fins Up]

Watch out what you ask for... Can you tell me what industry average pay is for a Domestic carrier flying the E170/190? According Airline Pilot Central http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com, salaries at all comparable 170/190 airlines are well below what Jetblue pays. Examples-- at Republic, a 20 year E190 CAPT/FO make 119/37/hr; US Airways 16 year CAPT/FO make 101/58/hr; Compass 18 year 170 CAPT/FO 104/43/hr while JBLU 10 year CAPT/FO make 144/96/hr + 1.5X over 78hrs for premium pay...

Do you really want industry average? Look at A-320 pay at these airlines and see what they pay out vs Jetblue using 10 year pay only CAPT/FO-- US Airways 135/89; United 134/91; Frontier 146/91; Spirit 145/91 while at JBLU 160/107 + 1.5X over 78hrs for premium pay-- as for 320 operators, we only lag behind Delta in pay.

Sooo, for all the "we lag behind industry" folks, maybe you need to look at the numbers again. Especially on the E190 side of the house-- YOU ARE THE BEST PAID E-190 PILOTS OUT THERE TODAY!!! Instead of just blindly saying we lag, maybe you can say we lead?

There is plenty of room for improvements from work rules to healthcare here at JBLU. But in some, if not many cases, we are better than our peers...

If all you're looking at is hourly rates, you're missing, or ignoring in your case, the big picture. Our hourly rates were based on an "industry standard" sliding scale. Some are higher, some are not. If you throw in insurance, retirement, vacation/sick accrual, our total package is far behind our peers.

Worse, our leadership is trying to tell us it does not lag. Not wanting to pay it is one thing. Lying to me about it is another. The "integrity" value is dead with our leadership.

We need a CBA so we can have a little more say in these things. The PVC tries, but they have no power to do anything.

 

[BeachBummer]

Remove Embrear name, remove ERJ from type and just look at the plane. It is the same as a 737, 717, DC-9, F100, A318/19. Configurations aside, at the end of the day the Embrear 190 is still under compensated in the hourly dept.

If you put the Boeing or Airbus name on the side of that plane there wouldn't even be an argument.

 

[Pattern-Master]

Ah Ha!!! I know what name Kit Darby post's under now...lol

Shhhhhhh,don't tell anyone!