"If Delta does not take delivery of CRJ jets"

[~~~^~~~]

The fact is that Delta, despite all of its bankruptcy posturing, is still in better shape than many others in terms of cash. Sure, bankruptcy might ultimately be used as a tool to deal with the looming pension and debt problems (and they are big problems), but Delta is still operationally pretty strong.

A loss of $3.58 per share is expected to be announced October 20th. Delta is losing its entire market capitalization every quarter - just amazing.

Bankruptcy posturing., WTF over? How is it that intelligent, highly trained pilots, can be so ignorant when it comes to business?

But it does not matter. I'm standing by my prognostication made four years ago that bankruptcy will be declared Third QTR 04 to First QTR 05. Regardless of whether an agreement is made to gut C2K, the game is almost over. And that probably does mean that DAL will either cancel its 50 seat order, or try some method to secure financing to acquire CRJ700's ( if the money is anywhere to be found ). A likely scenario is that these airplanes are operated by a company with the cash to acquire them, like CHQ.

~~~^~~~

 

[General Lee]

If Delta has to go into Chap 11, it probably wouldn't be in very long(wake up Spinproof). Management only has one union to deal with, and I think (hey Spinproof, wake up please) we already have a deal with management. There are other things now, besides our costs, that are hurting almost every airline---high fuel costs being one of them. We also own more than USAir and United (ASA, Comair, almost all of their RJs, new terminals like BOS) and we would go into Chap 11 with more cash. I also think a sale of ASA and or Comair might be forthcoming (Spinproof--wake up--next time try to contribute something, anything).


Fins,

You need to come down on the dramatics. Grinstein and company will do what they can with their cards, and then if the creditors don't pony up, then they will get it from them in the courts, for even more money.(10 cents on the dollar vs 50 cents on the dollar now)



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Heavy Set]

A loss of $3.58 per share is expected to be announced October 20th. Delta is losing its entire market capitalization every quarter - just amazing.

Bankruptcy posturing., WTF over? How is it that intelligent, highly trained pilots, can be so ignorant when it comes to business?

But it does not matter. I'm standing by my prognostication made four years ago that bankruptcy will be declared Third QTR 04 to First QTR 05. Regardless of whether an agreement is made to gut C2K, the game is almost over. And that probably does mean that DAL will either cancel its 50 seat order, or try some method to secure financing to acquire CRJ700's ( if the money is anywhere to be found ). A likely scenario is that these airplanes are operated by a company with the cash to acquire them, like CHQ.

~~~^~~~

Dude, notice that I said bankruptcy might be used as a TOOL to address the pension and debt issues... Get it? I am not saying that Delta won't declare bankruptcy... I think it is quite possible because nobody wants a huge debt load or pension liability hanging over them. Delta will use this threat of bankruptcy to extract more concessions from creditors and labor groups knowing that the creditors will get less and less in bankruptcy (everyone knows that the secured creditors would get some while unsecured would get the remains...). In the end, bankrupcty may still be used - even after the concessions - to wipe the slate clean. Thank God you got your MBA from Harvard and understand everything about business...

 

[sweptback]

We also own more than USAir and United (ASA, Comair, almost all of their RJs, new terminals like BOS) and we would go into Chap 11 with more cash.

I'm pretty sure about half of ASA's RJs are leased. Everything from 870AS down is, at least. That's 50 right there.

 

[General Lee]

So, how many does that make? And didn't we spend $700 million this year alone on RJs? I am not making that up. I guess Comair got those. What about the 70 seaters?



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[sweptback]

So, how many does that make?

Go play on the registry.faa.gov site if you truely want to know. I didn't bother to check any 70s, but like I said, about 50 of the 90-some 200s appear to be leased.

And didn't we spend $700 million this year alone on RJs? I am not making that up. I guess Comair got those. What about the 70 seaters?

Well, I'm not an accounting expert, but an airplane still costs x number of dollars whether it is leased or owned. You make payments on it either way, right?

And also, the newer airplanes appear to be owned. Why they changed their mind of leasing vs. ownership I don't know.

 

[spinproof]

If Delta has to go into Chap 11, it probably wouldn't be in very long(wake up Spinproof).In what very long?Very long before it happens..or very long in Chap 11...?? Sorry my General "gadfly" decoder ring turns my finger green...besides it makes my finger swell about as much as it's namesakes opinions... Management only has one union to deal with, and I think (hey Spinproof, wake up please)I'm listning' we already have a deal with management....uh but I feel it slipping away...scope..Oh scope..we hardly knew ya'.... There are other things now, besides our costs, that are hurting almost every airline---high fuel costs being one of them.Yes but the greatest of these is thy cost to thine employer... We also own more than USAir and United (ASA, Comair, almost all of their RJs, new terminals like BOS) and we would go into Chap 11 with more cash. I also think a sale of ASA and or Comair might be forthcoming (Spinproof--wake up--next time try to contribute something, anything).OK, now I'm listing...to starboard! That is why Comair and ASA will not be part of any Chap 11 proceedings.....to do so would deminish their worth. Thanks again for those pithy words of wisdom in which we all here(on the regionals board) long to hear your thoughful and...well stated words of.....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....

 

[On Your Six]

If Delta has to go into Chap 11, it probably wouldn't be in very long(wake up Spinproof).In what very long?Very long before it happens..or very long in Chap 11...?? Sorry my General "gadfly" decoder ring turns my finger green...besides it makes my finger swell about as much as it's namesakes opinions... Management only has one union to deal with, and I think (hey Spinproof, wake up please)I'm listning' we already have a deal with management....uh but I feel it slipping away...scope..Oh scope..we hardly knew ya'.... There are other things now, besides our costs, that are hurting almost every airline---high fuel costs being one of them.Yes but the greatest of these is thy cost to thine employer... We also own more than USAir and United (ASA, Comair, almost all of their RJs, new terminals like BOS) and we would go into Chap 11 with more cash. I also think a sale of ASA and or Comair might be forthcoming (Spinproof--wake up--next time try to contribute something, anything).OK, now I'm listing...to starboard! That is why Comair and ASA will not be part of any Chap 11 proceedings.....to do so would deminish their worth. Thanks again for those pithy words of wisdom in which we all here(on the regionals board) long to hear your thoughful and...well stated words of.....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....

Sounds like the General understands the situation better than you do. What value does your post add to this discussion? Zip.

 

[spinproof]

Yes and it sounds like you've made one too many high "g" turns without your "g" suit...or stayed way past happy hour at the "O" club!

What situation do you refer? Your want to confirm the obvious rantings of your hero says to me you have the same grasp of things as he. To which I would respond that I have the same value as you have to this discussion.

 

[ekuflyer]

ASA
43 CRJ-200's Leased the rest owned
all CRJ-700's owned
all but one (I Think) ATR Leased

 

[General Lee]

Spinproof (Mr. Spicoley),


Listen, DUDE, I don't really know the situation any better than you do. We have some smart people working at Dalpa and hopefully at the company trying to resolve this the best way they can. We have a lot of debt and now high fuel bills. Hopefully we can turn this thing around someday. Scope will probably be affected, but Grinstein already gave his opinion on RJs, and when asked about DCI flying 100 seaters in a SLC townhall meeting he stated "I can't see them flying those." Have a great nap. (Or bend over, or continuous duty overnight, etc)



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[N2264J]

You're missinterpreting what I said...What I said was, Comair and ASA would be profitable for DCI.

And what I'm saying is that, in my opinion, no rational investing institution would put any money toward standing up a "separate" company if it's still tied to that money pit in Atlanta.

Both Comair and ASA are extremely devalued in today's soft market. Delta could only get pennies on the dollar now for its original 3.1 billion dollar investment.

But who knows? Those Comair and ASA CL-700s and 900s might look good in Virgin livery. You know how much Fred Reid loves them RJs. General Lee won't let us forget it.

 

[ShadowFlight]

Scope will probably be affected, but Grinstein already gave his opinion on RJs, and when asked about DCI flying 100 seaters in a SLC townhall meeting he stated "I can't see them flying those."

Just an outsider's opinion but what Grinstein says and what actually happens, based on economic realities, may possibly end up being two distinctly different things. IMHO, everything is on the table for negotiation.

Best of luck to the Delta folks.

Peace

SF

 

[spinproof]

Spinproof (Mr. Spicoley),


Listen, DUDE, I don't really know the situation any better than you do. We have some smart people working at Dalpa and hopefully at the company trying to resolve this the best way they can. We have a lot of debt and now high fuel bills. Hopefully we can turn this thing around someday. Scope will probably be affected, but Grinstein already gave his opinion on RJs, and when asked about DCI flying 100 seaters in a SLC townhall meeting he stated "I can't see them flying those." Have a great nap. (Or bend over, or continuous duty overnight, etc)



Bye Bye--General Lee

(Spicoley) ???? Sorry I missed that episode...Why RU yelling and calling me Dude?? Hey is that some kinda' slam?As for smart people, that remains to be seen. So far I've read nothing but denile from DALPA. Debt and high fuel bills are a given, who doesn't have 'em. "Scope will probably be affected ?"...here's a flash for you Einstein....."hello""is this thing on?"..Did he say DALPA would absolutly be flying 100 seaters...well did he.. Didn't he also say you'll be taking a 30% hit O wise one! Man he's licking his chops hoping you guys bow up and refuse to play along.

You just want to pull ASA and COMAIR along as if their fate is contingent on your's . I don't see it that way at all! To me they seem to be in a good position to come out of this with room to grow regardless of what happens to you(DALPA for those not following along)!

OK this is really making me weary...as for the bend over part..I don't think it's me that's going to be grabbing his ankels... and I'm too old for HIGH SPEEDS! But thanks a nap does sound good! Try not to puck it up with any more inane anology.Thanks....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[On Your Six]

(Spicoley) ???? Sorry I missed that episode...Why RU yelling and calling me Dude?? Hey is that some kinda' slam?As for smart people, that remains to be seen. So far I've read nothing but denile from DALPA. Debt and high fuel bills are a given, who doesn't have 'em. "Scope will probably be affected ?"...here's a flash for you Einstein....."hello""is this thing on?"..Did he say DALPA would absolutly be flying 100 seaters...well did he.. Didn't he also say you'll be taking a 30% hit O wise one! Man he's licking his chops hoping you guys bow up and refuse to play along.

You just want to pull ASA and COMAIR along as if their fate is contingent on your's . I don't see it that way at all! To me they seem to be in a good position to come out of this with room to grow regardless of what happens to you(DALPA for those not following along)!

OK this is really making me weary...as for the bend over part..I don't think it's me that's going to be grabbing his ankels... and I'm too old for HIGH SPEEDS! But thanks a nap does sound good! Try not to puck it up with any more inane anology.Thanks....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Time to go back on your meds....