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Icing questions?

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Hey thanks for all the responses, Unfortunantly Avbug I won't be able to stay out of it. I will be forced to fly in it unless, like I said before, it is freezing rain. All of your advice has been great, I do want to know from some people that have done it before, what is landing on a snow covered or icy runway like? I know to use reverse and not brakes and to use differential (SP?) reverse to control your heading, but what is it like? Any advice for that specificly?

Fortunantly I am flying a turbine aircraft with good de-ice equip so that will help I am sure.
I have also heard from most people that the Shorts can haul a big load of ice if needed. It is a really stable platform, but there are a lot of unprotected areas of the aircraft that don't have de-ice boots or hot surfaces.

One last question, if you are flying at say 8000ft and start picking up ice, but the boots are working to break it off, would you climb out of it anyway? Also is the rule to always climb if you are getting ice? I know there could be warmer air below, but flying at the altitudes we do there is not a whole lot of room below to go down. So if it will climb, should you always try to climb out of it?

Thanks again.

SD
 
SD,

If you're getting ice, regardless of your de-ice or anti icing capabilities, do something to get out of it if you can. Climb or descend. If you can't descend to warmer air, then climb to get altitiude to deal with your problem, or to climb out of the icing layer if you are able.

The airplane may be able to handle the present rate of icing. However, you may lose that deice capability. If you're in it at the time, what was once an annoyance or no big deal, may suddenly turn into a really big deal.

The loss of a blanket or boot, or the failure of a bleed valve may nor may not be noticable until the indications of aerodynamic difficulty become manifest. We're all so accustomed to relying on idiot lights and agreement/disagreement lights to tell us that everything is working. If we can't see it on the ammeter or the annunciator panel, it must be okay. However, this isn't always the case, and it's too late to figure that out when in the ice.

Icing can get bad fast. I had an experience in a Twin Commander once that put the fear of God and Ice into me in short order. It involved a rapid ice accumulation that put an inch of ice on in a minute, and caused an initial 50 knot speed loss. In less than a minute and a half we were through blue line and then slower, and descending, and unable to maintain MEA. We were in mountainous terrain in instrument conditions. Ice from the props sounded like a 12 gage being continuously fired behind our ears, and it did significant structural damage to the airplane.

The significant part of that experience was that the aircraft on the route ahead of us didn't get it, nor did the trailing aircraft. We flew through an area which was small geographically, that was pushing some warm, moist, saturated air upslope rapidly. It cooled rapidly, and it occured right where we were. The chief pilot for that operation was in the right seat, and I was flying. I had been present only a short time previously when he had declared to a class of new-hires that the Twin Commander can carry any amount of ice, and only lose 15 knots.

Be really careful when people tell you an airframe can carry a lot of ice, without trouble.

Some years ago I was eastbound in a large four engine airplane. We were picking up some ice, but it didn't seem to be a big deal; the usual 1/4" or trace that we would see in the winter in the clouds. In a short time period, it built such that large 6" horns were sticking off the leading edge and prop spinners, and we began to get a very pronounced aileron "snatch." I immediately descended and notified ATC, and onl 2,000 to 3,000 below the icing layer, we shed most of it.

Had we been unable to descend for whatever reason (we were fortunate enough to be over low, flat terrain), I would have elected to climb. Even if I was unable to get out of the ice, the altitude might buy time in the event of a problem. The point there is that if all the options aren't available, pick the best of what you have left and work with that.

Be cautious of systems failures or issues such as a blown boot, or blown cell. You can have a single cell in a multi cell boot or blanket that fails, and this can cause some ice bridging issues...even in nice, modern equipment.

The FAA has pushed more recently for continuous use of boots at the first sign of icing, and has even published a paper trying to tell us that "ice bridging" is more myth than reality. I disagree strongly, even with more modern boot systems that pulse at higher rates and frequencies, or that operate at higher pressures. Additionally, anybody who has ever popped a boot, only to have the boot pop or burst, comes to realise staying in ice and relying on deice capability is a fools errand.

Icing conditions exist that can take down the most capable of aircraft. Embedded cells or orographic lifting action, or any convective activity or mountain activity, can result in severe ice in very light or mild conditions. I'm sure that many of us have had our scares. We're coming into icing weather again here shortly. At the higher altitudes, it's a year-round issue. It's a good time to begin thinking seriously about ice once more.

Remember that de-ice and anti-ice equipment isn't really for flight into or through known icing conditions. It may be labled that way for certification, but really it's for getting out of ice.

Ice bad. Very bad. Except maybe in a slurpee. The coke ones, not the cherry ones, that leave you looking like you wore closet lipstick or something. Ice bad. Very bad. Snowcones good. Except in the winter when give bad headache and chills. Then ice very bad. :(
 
Thanks AvBug, I just ordered a book and the NASA video on icing. I am going to educate myself thoroughly before this winter, and before I ever get myself into the situation. To all that wrote, thanks for helping out a fellow pilot with all of your advice.

Fly safe and Tailwinds,

SD
 
I almost always climb, you can always go back down.

I also never stay in icing more than 10 seconds because I dont want to get deiced at my destination so I pretend like I dont have any deice equipment.

Someone mentioned temps...0 thru minus 4 is the worst. Tops of clouds are also horrible. The more airspeed you have the better the boots will blow off the ice so sometimes I will descend at a slightly faster rate than normal to get some extra airspeed then blow the boots.

Good Luck
 
I understand, sometimes you CANT get out of it. What I watch is the airspeed. If it is decaying more than a few knots every 5-10 minutes you need to execute your escape plan( because you already thought of one). Sometimes you just cant get out and have to deal with it. Keep the auto pilot off and feel for any type of buffet, roll or pitch. My turbo prop just cant climb out sometimes so always remember what alltitude you got ice and what type in case you have to go back down. While climbing might be the best sometimes you pick up SO much in the climb you wont get out.

As far as landing on icy runways.

Ever ride a tricycle on a frozen pond. That can be what its like. Remember, one of the hard parts is breaking out a mins durring a snowstorm. Its like nothing youve seen before. EVERYTHING is white, the ground, sky, runway markings are covered. If your lucky you might see some lights but not much else. Watch the crosswind and fly it until it stops. I mean fly it like an airplane until the airplane comes to a complete stop. Where people get in trouble is when they go from flying to steering the nosewheel. Never turn if you think it would make the plane "lean". Carefull how much reverse you use as it can go from low to NO vis.

Overall very challenging but with the proper respect you will walk away a better and more confident pilot
 
"Blow your boots and blow them often"

I agree with some of the advice that "JetPilot500" and others have given you.
However, I must jump in and tell you that blowing your boots often is bad advice (IMO).
I have extensive experience of flying high performance turbo-prop equipment with excellent boots in icing conditions.
Let me offer you this - before you go "blowing" your boots because you see ice on the wings, look for a performance degredation. Specifically watch the airspeed. This will be one of the first indications that you are hauling ice.
If you are flying a machine that weighs less than 15000lbs I would wait until you see a loss of 5 to 8 kts before using your boots.
Another quick gouge is to watch for the depth. If you have a stall vane/lift indicator located on your wing that you can see.... pump the boots just prior to the depth equaling the highth of that surface.
Sorry to be brief, but I just couldn't let this get by you. I've watched and checked many in these conditions. If you dont' do it right, you will bridge icing gaps on the wing.
Remember to be conservative and don't act in haste.

Take Care and Good Luck,

DRVA320
 
One more thing on icy runways; always slow enough that power is required to exit the runway. Don't try to exit under the inertia gained when landing. Slow straight ahead, and be slow enough on the runway that you have to add power to taxi clear. Seems obvious, but it isn't always so.
 
avweb.com had some good articles on flying in ice

metroliner guys get it in cruise in the caribbean.

a brasilia went out of control from ice picked up over the bahamas a few years ago
 

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