Icing questions?

[SDdriver]

Does anybody know where I can find some really good reading on flying a twin turbine in Icing conditions? I know all of the basics, but I would like to know more about flying in icing conditions from people that are really experienced. I am from the south and we don't get much down here, but this winter I will be fling farther up north and want to get better prepared for what I might encounter. Such as landing on snow covered runways and taking off in icing conditions. The plane I fly is fully certified into known ice with the exception of freezing rain.

Any advice would be appreciated!

SD

 

[Cornelius]

After the ATR indiana crash, a lot of manufacutuers made aircraft specific iciing videos. I know Embraer made one and I think you can order a NASA video from sporty's or something. The NASA video was actually really informative and discusses tail plane stalls and stuff. Look around for videos and books at pilot shops, and I'm sure you'll find plenty of info out there.

 

[flyingtoilet]

NASA Video

The NASA video is excellent. Great because of the actual flightdeck footage during icing upsets. Also, I think it's less than $10.

 

[KingAirer]

Just bought one at Sportys.com a few days ago. Only $5.

 

[RJones]

Re: Icing

Cornelius is correct. When I was flying the Mu-2 we had to watch a video of a Mu-2 flying behind a tanker getting covered with a reddish orange water spray that would ice up the Mu-2. Then we talked about icing conditions and got signed off. The company gave us a certificate/card that said we knew what we where doing and we went back to the job of flying crummy under-powered Mu-2's in icing conditions.

Sporty's Pilot Shop sells a small book by Porter J. Perkins and William J. Rieke called In-Flight Icing. Very good and goes into detail about the different types of icing and what to watch out for.

Good luck, RJ

 

[SDdriver]

Thanks to everyone who responded, I will definitely look into all of that material.

THanks again.

SD

 

[TurboS7]

As nike says. JUST DO IT. I don't recommend anyone staying in icing conditions no matter what kind of airplane they are flying.

 

[JetPilot500]

Here is a couple of high points for you:

1) Blow your boots and blow them often.
Many pilots used to say to blow your boots after about 3/4" of accumulation has built up. That was true of older boots (like those on DC-3's), but the theory was passed down for generations of pilots even though it was no longer necessary to follow that advice. The newer boots can break up smaller amounts of ice with out the concerns of pushing the ice out without breaking it off (bridging). So when you start to see some build up don't be afraid to blow it off too early. If it all doesn't come off, blow them again, it's no big deal.

2) Limit your use of flaps in icing conditions.
Using your flaps increases the exposure of the underside of the wing to the ice. When ice builds under the wing, in unprotected areas, you can create a serious hazard. That ice cannot be removed by boots. I am not saying that you shouldn't use your flaps, just don't put them out prematurely in the ice or especially when holding.

3) Turn the autopilot off if you can.
Many manufacturers now recommend that you hand fly the airplane in icing conditions. That may be a bit of overkill, however they want you to keep the feel of the flight controls to know when a problem may be starting. This was a contributing factor in the AE ATR and Comair Brazilia crashes. However, IMO, if you are single pilot and in a critical phase of flight, use the autopilot.

4) Avoid Freezing Rain!!!
When freezing rain is occuring, the ice doesn't always freeze on impact with the leading edge. Rain may strike the wing and not freeze until it has trailed back on the wing behind the boot. If this occurs, you will be unable to remove this ice on the top and bottom portions of the wing. This will change the aerodynamics of the wing possibly leading to an early or unexpected stall. The best way to notice this type of icing is if you start to see ice streaks forming on the side cockpit windows. GET OUT ASAP!!

5) Don't hang out in the ice.
Icing of moderate or greater intensity usually is only prevelent in 1000 to 3000 foot bands. You can usually get out of this type of icing relatively quickly. If this heavier stuff goes from the surface to 3000', ask for a quick climb or stay a little higher on arrival....ATC will usually help you out. If its around your cruise altitude range, change altitude. You can usually find an area of no ice or only light icing within 2000' of your current altitude.

Icing will not be a problem, if you avoid it as much as possible. Icing conditions can be very unpredictable. Sometimes you will be in a situation totally amazed by the fact that ice is not forming, other times it will be building for reasons also unexpected. Boots do a fine job of keeping you safe if used in the proper situations and if used correctly. Make sure you check them before takeoff when anticipating icing conditions. Also, blow them every once in a while if you haven't used them lately, expecially in the summer.

Good Luck,
JetPilot500

 

[AvLawyer]

I second the recommendation of the book by Perkins and Rieke -- this is a very quick read that can save your life. I had the opportunity to meet Bill Rieke -- he is THE GUY at NASA on icing research, but the book is very practical (rather than scholarly) and contains info that I've never found anywhere else.

Best to you with the Short -- this is an aircraft that **cannot** tolerate heavy ice loads, per a former test pilot I met.


Excellent training videos available from NASA:
http://icebox.grc.nasa.gov/ext/education/video/video.html

Incredible footage of actual icing test flights.

 

[OtterFO]

If everyone here is discussing the same NASA video, it's of a Twin Otter and tailplane iceing. VERY AMAZING footage. They actually get a full tail plane stall condition.

I realize the thread was based on trubine aircraft, but for those operating a piston in ice. I had a friend who managed to bag both vac pumps on a navajo while he was trying to keep up with the ice.... The maintance guru's think he overheated them....

 

[TurboS7]

Keep the power up and fly fast, don't climb fast otherwise you will subject yourself to icing on the lower middle wing or worse yet belly ice. If you are in freeezing rain climb the warm area of weather is just a couple of thousand feet above.

 

[Drifter]

Take a look at your Outside Air Temperature guage while in IMC. From my experience ice really packs on from around the 10 - 25 degree range. I try to avoid flight in that range myself because who needs the weight and the drag. If you have to descend through those temps in the clouds, do it quickly and try not to hang out the gear and flaps at that time if you can avoid it.

 

[mckpickle]

Keep the power up and fly fast, don't climb fast otherwise you will subject yourself to icing on the lower middle wing or worse yet belly ice. If you are in freeezing rain climb the warm area of weather is just a couple of thousand feet above.

Just to clarrify, dont climb at a high deck angle. climb at a higher airspeed if you can. The auto pilot thing is real important. It will hide SO much. You can feel the plane if you dont have the AP on. Flying the ATR is fine in ICE now but you have to be carefull like any other plane. Got into some bad stuff this winter and had about 3 inches on board. The plane will fly but you got to get out of it if its accumulating that quick. And with that quick of accumulation your not going to be able to climb so plan on going down. Also, beware the northeast corner of a front. Usually the worst icing. And watch for a "bridge of ice" This is anyplace that ice builds and looks like a small snowbank. IE unheated portoin of windows, behind boots, window frames ect. Good luck and keep your speed up.

 

[V-1]

JetPilot500 has great advice to offer. I agree with all of it, except I have to qualify one statement. Blowing the boots often is great if you're in a turbine-powered aircraft. If you're in a piston aircraft, be careful about using them too much. The boots usually get their inflation pressure from the vacuum/pressure pumps, whichever the aircraft is equipped with. The impeller vanes in these pumps are made of a fragile material. Heavy, repeated applications of deicing boots will cause premature failure. Hopefully you're in a twin and you have a second one. This isn't a consideration in turbine-powered aircraft.

JP500 has offered the best advice of all - get out of it if at all possible. While some may argue the point, I always tried to climb as high as possible. If I couldn't get out of it, at least I had extra altitude to work with.

If you ever have a mechanic patch a boot, make sure they evacuate any water from the system. Otherwise you'll pull the airplane from the warm hangar, check the boots during run-up and find they work properly. Ten minutes later when you need them they mysteriously won't work. Water in the system will freeze rendering the boots useless.

Flying in Michigan in the winter, the outside air temperature gauge was checked in my scan as often as the airspeed indicator during initial climbs. Information is key to operating successfully in serious icing conditions. Be sure to help everyone else out by passing along pilot reports of cloud tops/icing encounters.

A trick I learned while flying freight up North was to ask the weather briefer what altitudes he/she had wind readouts from doppler radar. Our FSS had radar equipment that could tell the actual winds aloft if there was moisture present. Guess what? If they didn't have any data above say 5000 feet that meant the cloud tops were at or below 5000 feet in the area of the radar site. This trick was extremely accurate at pinpointing the tops of the clouds and showing how layered the weather was.

Watch out for air temperatures between 0 and about -8 degrees Celsius. That's usually when you get the worst icing.

Get high, and stay high as long as possible, unless you noticed a warmer (above freezing) layer lower. Air Traffic Control knows what you're up against and will work with you.

Fly Safely,
V-1

 

[avbug]

Stay out of ice. Ice is bad.

Don't eat yellow snow.

If you're landing on ice, be prepared to take it around, and keep the airplane's long axis strictly in line with the gracker on the ground.

If your're parking on ice after taxiing with skis, block up the skiis. Otherwise, the heat generated from friction will generate enough tomelt the ice, and freeze it into the ground.

Tiedown ropes make good saws for removing snow and accumulations on the tops fo the wings. Always carry a broom or other similiar object for snow removal.

Avoid ice.