Ibt vote new or old?

[CL300Pilot]

GC,

For what it is worth, no, he is not in a position with special privileges. Yes, I do know who he is. He is as hard a working pilot as the rest of us who are doing all we can to keep our company in tact as much as possible. Do I totally agree with everything he says? No. But, he does speak openly and honestly and I would be more than happy to call BS on anything he said that was not honest.

What shanes and others just can't come to terms with is that he is very anti-union, at least for here at Flexjet and some don't like that. If he aggravates you so much, just block him. Then, you don't have to deal with anything he says. The beauty about this board is that you get to hear both sides feelings. We as individuals have to use what brains we have and decide what we choose to like/dislike and believe/not believe. I personally have no want nor desire for a union, but that does not mean that I don't listen to your opinions on what you have to say on the union side. The best thing both sides can do is openly, honestly and without hostility, discuss the issues and educate each other.

Ok, back to HBO.

Shanes , you hit the nail on the head on that one! TWA not only drinks the company koolaid, he is one of the guys that is serving it to others. I don't know who he is but he must be in a position where he has special privileges.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Thanks CL. My opinion of unions was not a positive one until I was introduced to aviation. Everyone has a learning curve-I had a steep one myself. I'm not going to block twa. I enjoy his 2 cents worth. I definitely support an open and honest dialogue. Sometimes I have to laugh when someone pushes his button and he counter attacks like a dog with rabies. I'll buy the first beer as the show begins.

 

[CL300Pilot]

And I will bring the popcorn.

:beer:

Thanks CL. My opinion of unions was not a positive one until I was introduced to aviation. Everyone has a learning curve-I had a steep one myself. I'm not going to block twa. I enjoy his 2 cents worth. I definitely support an open and honest dialogue. Sometimes I have to laugh when someone pushes his button and he counter attacks like a dog with rabies. I'll buy the first beer as the show begins.

 

[shanes123]

I also was anti- union til I came to FLOPS. I don't think anyone is pro union. Its a necessary evil with companies that have management like FLOPS..You don't think all of us would like to be able to negotiate with our management without fear of retaliation or having to pay dues if we truly had a honest group of guys we could talk to and would give everyone a fair shake? If that was the case I would vote the union out today. Like a said a million times before (now a million and 1) not all companies need a union but FLOPS sure the hell does. Everything I heard aboput FLEX. they didn't need a union. If I worked there I wouldn't have wanted one either. Flex is gone your on the Ricci ride now. So hold the F on.

 

[Bill_Lumbergh]

Everything I heard aboput FLEX. they didn't need a union.

I wouldn't say that. Flex Management has done a good job over the years of squashing any hint of unionization through the termination of "bad apples"

Flex is gone your on the Ricci ride now. So hold the F on.

Now THAT is scary...

 

[luckydog]

I wouldn't say that. Flex Management has done a good job over the years of squashing any hint of unionization through the termination of "bad apples"
Now THAT is scary...

Name a single 'apple' terminated for ANYTHING union.

 

[japhy]

Name a single 'apple' terminated for ANYTHING union.

It is never for anything union. They find something else.

 

[luckydog]

It is never for anything union. They find something else.

Again with the ambiguous.

I'll make it easier, name a union guy 'They' fired for 'something else'.

Post some facts, or don't post. We've already have too much make believe on this board.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

?good until the end ?

• Comp & Benefits
• Work/Life Balance
• Senior Management
• Culture & Values
• Career Opportunities

Current Employee - Captain in Dallas, TX Current Employee - Captain in Dallas, TX





I have been working at Bombardier Flexjet full-time (more than 10 years)
Pros
great mission , Superb co-workers


Cons
Management should not take anonymous hateful reports about crewmembers to be fact. This company railroaded a Captain on untrue facts based on anonymous reports that ultimately lead to them using an impossible set up in training simulator that lead to unjust termination of a Captain


Advice to ManagementAdvice
Do what you say
Don't be dishonest

 

[shanes123]

Nobody has ever been terminated over unionization ( not even the Fab 5) it's always another reason like they didn't pass indoctrine. Or they didn't fit into the companies CULTure. But never ever unionization that's illegal no company would ever do something illegal like that

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Lucky? Lucky? Anybody home?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

?good until the end ?

• Comp & Benefits
• Work/Life Balance
• Senior Management
• Culture & Values
• Career Opportunities

Current Employee - Captain in Dallas, TX Current Employee - Captain in Dallas, TX





I have been working at Bombardier Flexjet full-time (more than 10 years)
Pros
great mission , Superb co-workers


Cons
Management should not take anonymous hateful reports about crewmembers to be fact. This company railroaded a Captain on untrue facts based on anonymous reports that ultimately lead to them using an impossible set up in training simulator that lead to unjust termination of a Captain


Advice to ManagementAdvice
Do what you say
Don't be dishonest

Ok, even you are not dumb enough to believe this one.

So, the phone call from management this post is suggesting went like this:

Management: Hey, we want you to make sure that Capt ______ fails his checkride.
Instructor: How can I make sure someone fail their checkride, either they meet the standard, or they don't.
Management: We want you to create some impossible set up so there is no way they can pass.
Instructor: Checkrides are governed by the ATP PTS. Not sure what scenario you are implying, but everyone who is a professional pilot knows what to expect on their checkride. Plus, we don't modify our scenarios based on the whim of management.
Management: We want this guy gone, so make it happen!
Instructor: Even if I agreed top this, which I never would, how are we going to convince the other pilot in the simulator to go along with this?
Management: Oh crap, forgot about that. Guess we better make sure we fire him also.

I am not familiar with the glassdoor website, but I am sure anyone (including a FO pilot wanting to stir up a mess) could post anything on it.

We are a right to work company, if management wanted to get someone fired, they would just do it. Why would they need to use the training department to accomplish what they could do alone?

 

[slowtation capt]

Ok, even you are not dumb enough to believe this one.

So, the phone call from management this post is suggesting went like this:

Management: Hey, we want you to make sure that Capt ______ fails his checkride.
Instructor: How can I make sure someone fail their checkride, either they meet the standard, or they don't.
Management: We want you to create some impossible set up so there is no way they can pass.
Instructor: Checkrides are governed by the ATP PTS. Not sure what scenario you are implying, but everyone who is a professional pilot knows what to expect on their checkride. Plus, we don't modify our scenarios based on the whim of management.
Management: We want this guy gone, so make it happen!
Instructor: Even if I agreed top this, which I never would, how are we going to convince the other pilot in the simulator to go along with this?
Management: Oh crap, forgot about that. Guess we better make sure we fire him also.

I am not familiar with the glassdoor website, but I am sure anyone (including a FO pilot wanting to stir up a mess) could post anything on it.

We are a right to work company, if management wanted to get someone fired, they would just do it. Why would they need to use the training department to accomplish what they could do alone?

Funny thing about that made up conversation. Something very similar happened between KR and Sullivan in emails inorder to fire 5 from TravelAir during the merge for union organizing. The emails became public knowledge during their lawsuit.

 

[dime line]

Ok, even you are not dumb enough to believe this one.

So, the phone call from management this post is suggesting went like this:

Management: Hey, we want you to make sure that Capt ______ fails his checkride.
Instructor: How can I make sure someone fail their checkride, either they meet the standard, or they don't.
Management: We want you to create some impossible set up so there is no way they can pass.
Instructor: Checkrides are governed by the ATP PTS. Not sure what scenario you are implying, but everyone who is a professional pilot knows what to expect on their checkride. Plus, we don't modify our scenarios based on the whim of management.
Management: We want this guy gone, so make it happen!
Instructor: Even if I agreed top this, which I never would, how are we going to convince the other pilot in the simulator to go along with this?
Management: Oh crap, forgot about that. Guess we better make sure we fire him also.

I am not familiar with the glassdoor website, but I am sure anyone (including a FO pilot wanting to stir up a mess) could post anything on it.

We are a right to work company, if management wanted to get someone fired, they would just do it. Why would they need to use the training department to accomplish what they could do alone?

You mean it goes like this TWA



WASHINGTON, Sept. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- Four pilots are suing their employer,
Flight Options, LLC, for firing them in retaliation for their union organizing
activities. They filed a motion for summary judgment against the company in
the Federal District Court in Cleveland, Ohio. The case is Thomas Bowden, et
al. vs. Flight Options, LLC, Case No. 02-1768.
Their employer, following the merger of Flight Options and Raytheon Travel
Air in March 2002, fired the pilots, Thomas Bowden, William Brunet, Thomas
Jeter and William Tumlin. Flight Options is now majority-owned by a Raytheon
subsidiary. The pilots were members of the Raytheon Travel Air union
organizing committee that attempted to unionize the pilots of RTA with the
Teamsters through a campaign that resulted in an election before the National
Mediation Board in January 2002.
"These pilots were leaders in the Teamsters union effort at Raytheon
Travel Air," said Don Treichler, Director of the Teamsters Airline Division.
"They are all skilled, veteran pilots. Their professionalism cannot be
disputed. Flight Options' reasons for firing them are completely without
merit. Discovery in the case has confirmed what we knew -- that these skilled
professionals were fired because they supported the union at Travel Air."
Discovery in the litigation revealed that Flight Options targeted the
pilots for firing. An e-mail circulated among its managers in March 2002
shows them scheming to manufacture grounds for terminating the plaintiffs and
stating that they needed to change the reasons for firing Bowden because he
had not yet attended an indoctrination session at Flight Options headquarters.
Bowden was not terminated until late June 2002 and the alleged grounds for
discharge did not occur until months after the March 2002 e-mail.
Discovery also uncovered a blacklist of pilots compiled by a Flight
Options manager on which the plaintiffs' names were marked. Another Flight
Options manager who had been a manager at Travel Air testified that the
employer asked Travel Air managers to identify troublemakers among the Travel
Air pilots and that the plaintiffs' names were marked on that blacklist.
Evidence shows that former Flight Options CEO Kenn Ricci engaged in a
concerted anti-union campaign to defeat the Travel Air union election. The
campaign involved intelligence gathered on the Teamster organizing effort;
Ricci's monitoring of pilot Internet communications regarding the union;
interrogation by Ricci of pilots about their opinions on the union; and
threads by Ricci regarding what would happen if the union were voted in.
Ricci admitted in a deposition that his anti-union campaign occupied most of
his time following the December 2001 announcement of the merger and leading up
to the January 17, 2002 ballot count.
Evidence also shows Ricci made repeated statements that it was legal for
him to fire pilots for organizing with a union. An August 2002 e-mail message
by Ricci stated that Flight Options had a policy against hiring pilots from
unionized carriers.
In March 2002, Ricci threatened the pilot who served as the telephone
hotline "Voice of the Union" during the RTA union election that he should not
engage in organizing activity at Flight Options. That pilot left Flight
Options to take a position at Teamster-represented NetJets. The evidence
revealed clearly that Flight Options knew the plaintiffs were the union
activists among the Travel Air pilots and that Flight Options was hostile to
union supporters and retaliated against them.
Flight Options asserted unwarranted grounds for the discharge of the
pilots. Management was unable to produce a single manager who could testify
to the conduct of Jeter and Tumlin that allegedly led to their firing. Flight
Options managers contradicted themselves as to the reasons for Brunet and
Bowden's terminations. Two Flight Options managers denied that Brunet engaged
in the conduct during an indoctrination session for which he was allegedly
fired. Ricci testified that he fired Brunet for "bad body language," but
never discussed the matter with Brunet. Flight Options asserted four
different stories as to why they fired Bowden -- stories which proved untrue.
The Flight Options e-mail targeting Bowden for termination months prior to any
of these alleged events shows that the company sought any pretext to fire him.
"It is unusual for plaintiffs to seek summary judgment in a lawsuit but
here the evidence is so strong that we think it demands judgment in favor of
the plaintiffs," said the plaintiffs' attorney, William Wilder of Baptiste &
Wilder, P.C. in Washington, D.C.
Flight Options will have until October 15, 2003 to file its response to
the plaintiffs' motion. The court will likely rule on the motion in November
2003. Trial is currently set for early December 2003 in Cleveland, Ohio.

Founded in August 1903, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters is
celebrating its 100-year anniversary as a representative and advocate for
working families.



SOURCE International Brotherhood of Teamsters

 

[jetwash]

You mean it goes like thisTWA
.
.
.
.

Discovery also uncovered a blacklist of pilots compiled by a Flight
Options manager on which the plaintiffs' names were marked. Another Flight
Options manager who had been a manager at Travel Air testified that the
employer asked Travel Air managers to identify troublemakers among the Travel
Air pilots and that the plaintiffs' names were marked on that blacklist.

How big is your list TWA???

He's making a list
and checking it twice
gonna find out who's naughty or nice..
TWA is becoming a SFO .....

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I think he would look good in 5 stripes.

 

[wingsnthings]

?good until the end ?

• Comp & Benefits
• Work/Life Balance
• Senior Management
• Culture & Values
• Career Opportunities

Current Employee - Captain in Dallas, TX Current Employee - Captain in Dallas, TX





I have been working at Bombardier Flexjet full-time (more than 10 years)
Pros
great mission , Superb co-workers


Cons
Management should not take anonymous hateful reports about crewmembers to be fact. This company railroaded a Captain on untrue facts based on anonymous reports that ultimately lead to them using an impossible set up in training simulator that lead to unjust termination of a Captain


Advice to ManagementAdvice
Do what you say
Don't be dishonest

It must be true if it is on the internet! LOL! I have been at FJ for some time and have never heard of this happening. FJ has a very ethical and professional training department. Try another scare tactic, I don't think this will get much traction.

 

[Bill_Lumbergh]

It must be true if it is on the internet! LOL! I have been at FJ for some time and have never heard of this happening. FJ has a very ethical and professional training department. Try another scare tactic, I don't think this will get much traction.

The thing you seem to forget is that you don't have the same owners any more. As we said at TravelAir after Uncle Kenn took the reins from Mother Raytheon

"We're not in Kansas any more, Toto."

 

[The Architect]

The Process

I am where I want to be, thanks. It's not necessarily Team Matt or Team Ricci here, much as you might like to play it that way to scare the FJ guys and increase your revenue. While I wouldn't want to be exposed to KR's whims without protections, that doesn't mean I have to agree with 1108's current leadership and their banana republic. But from your obviously outsized ego ('The Architect' - really?), constant condescension and unfailing knee jerk defense of them, my guess is you're afraid the new team might not keep you as a full-time employee if they get voted in.

Well, now we will see if you agree with the new leadership.

"Knee jerk defense"...??? Gimme a break.

IBT employee - Nice try, but a shot and a miss. Shoot a little higher and to the right.

Oh, and you obviously don't get the concept of the "Architect."

"I am the Architect... I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant. "

 

[BlueNose]

Well, now we will see if you agree with the new leadership.

Oh, and you obviously don't get the concept of the "Architect."
"I am the Architect... Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not."

Well, now let's see how they do. My motto for this election was the same as for the current clown show in DC - 'Vote Whig, they couldn't possibly be worse.' I wish the new team every success.

And yes, obviously I don't get the concept. Please forgive me for thinking you give condescending answers or have an outsized ego, how could I ever have reached such a conclusion?

Merry Christmas to you.