IBT Lawsuit

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Orion just asking a question here. Do you believe anyone would have received a raise if union vote failed? Their furloughing pilots!!! Maybe there would I been a small raise maybe not. But with no contract and furloughs I smell a paycut. KR hasn't given office people, Mechanics, Flight Attendants, anyone a raise in 15+ years why would he give the Pilots one?

Only a pay cut if we were lucky. Look at the Brain Dead Label program. Your bonus is based on "productivity". Something you have little control over. If you write up an airplane, it goes against your productivity bonus. And the real kicker is the rolling duty days.

 

[doh]

You were about to get "paid". You messed that up by believing in the 1108. No one has answered what you expect to get except for get "paid". What leverage do you have for the company to give you anything? I'm not going to sit here and defend any one individual, but I do not believe the Union will do right by anyone. Look the proposed SLI, that you guys are praising must be implemented. Wow, that was completely different from what was being proposed during negotiations. What a mess. It just breeds contempt between the two companies.

Are you really that big of a Tool?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Some pilots will never catch on.

 

[Honorstudent]

You were about to get "paid". You messed that up by believing in the 1108. No one has answered what you expect to get except for get "paid". What leverage do you have for the company to give you anything? I'm not going to sit here and defend any one individual, but I do not believe the Union will do right by anyone. Look the proposed SLI, that you guys are praising must be implemented. Wow, that was completely different from what was being proposed during negotiations. What a mess. It just breeds contempt between the two companies.

OrionCFI you are correct on one point, yes we are about to get paid and it will be in the JCBA which Managment can not resend at a whim

 

[doh]

There is a fence negotiation session scheduled for tomorrow. Watch closely whether management actually comes prepared, or just tries regressive/surface negotiations again.

 

[993_Pilot]

...Let's say we would have voted the 1108 out. Did everyone think we were going to lose our jobs? Immediate pay cut? Schedule change? 401 k loss? Why would he do that? In fact the 401k got restated for some and if we voted them out we were all getting a raise. Oh yeah, with the implementation of this Union, my job is on the chopping block due to possible furloughs.
Go ahead rip my head off and tell me how short sighted I am. From where I'm sitting I don't see this doom and gloom. Seems like every darn aviation management group out there.

I get the frustration that you must feel, but do you actually think that the need for pilots has decreased simply because there is a union on property? It would somehow magically be different if only there was no union? ... give me a friggin' break. They can either sell airplanes/hours or they can't, and that is the only thing that drives the need for pilots. Maybe they recalled too many pilots, too soon, in an attempt to get to the bottom of the list and rid themselves of eligible voters... did you ever consider that? Any suggestion that this is somehow the unions fault is laughable, and as far as the VSP goes, it could easily be negotiated, if the company was actually willing to come to the table and negotiate. You should be directing your frustration and anger at management, where it belongs.

There is a fence negotiation session scheduled for tomorrow. Watch closely whether management actually comes prepared, or just tries regressive/surface negotiations again.

I will bet that tomorrow will be more trivial surface negotiation geared towards stalling further. So it probably won't happen tomorrow, but eventually management will desperately attempt to protect the FOK by un-fencing the Globals and G450's before we get to arbitration.

 

[doh]

If they surface/regressively negotiate, we will be right back in front of the judge.

 

[V1 Rotate]

V1 you say the Flex guys outsmarted the options guys on the SLI, but your not a IGM. You prefer brain dead label pilot over me. MR I got my 30%. But your not a IGM. As blatantly harsh as I am I have always argued for equality for everyone until recently. I say what everyone else is thinking kinda like TRUMP. When I am sitting talking to a group of pilots on the road, Netjets, TMC, XO guys. A lot of them make me look mild on how they speak of Flexs arrogance and stupidity at the same time. Oh and I will never give up the Booze or heavy Metal maybe you should try it. Get away from the TEXASS TWO STEP.

Oh, let me count the ways you are wrong. I'm not an IGM. I don't have my 30%. Nor am I from Texas. By my count, that's three strikes. If you'd pay attention then you'd know I was on the SLI committee. Are you calling all three of us IGMs?

 

[shanes123]

Why haven't you addressed your comment about outsmarting the options guys. And your precious Flex is a loud and proud TEXASS Company. Being on the SLI committee to outsmart the options guys makes you a IGM in my book and if all three of you had that agenda then yes I am calling you all IGMs I hope the other two didn't have that mindset but now I have my doubts might explain why the first 34 are Flex union haters

 

[V1 Rotate]

Why haven't you addressed your comment about outsmarting the options guys. And your precious Flex is a loud and proud TEXASS Company. Being on the SLI committee to outsmart the options guys makes you a IGM in my book and if all three of you had that agenda then yes I am calling you all IGMs I hope the other two didn't have that mindset but now I have my doubts might explain why the first 34 are Flex union haters

You're reading way too far between the lines. You're making a connection that since the top 33 guys are Flexjet that that makes me an IGM??? You're way off the reservation and as clueless as anyone I've ever talked to. The list was explained in great detail with notes attached at the bottom. Did you bother to read them? I'm guessing not otherwise you'd know why those 33 are at the top. You've made a fool of yourself on here for so long that I'm not even sure why I'm debating you. Consider this conversation over between us.

 

[shanes123]

Still haven't addressed your comment about outsmarting the options guys You're silence is loud and clear. now this conversation is over

 

[V1 Rotate]

I'm not sure what you want to know??? I'm not going to divulge all the negotiations that went on behind closed doors on here, much less to you. I had a job to do. It was to represent the Flexjet pilots. I'd like to think I got them a pretty good deal considering the obstacles we faced. Take your issues up with your Merger Committee. Now it's over.

 

[993_Pilot]

...I still believe that the union could have signed off on the VSP the way it was presented instead of fighting for a BETTER DEAL, ...

In some ways you are not too far off the mark, but what you are failing to recognize is that management always expected that the VSP would be challenged, and when it wasn't immediately challenged, they extended it to the Options pilots. It was always designed to divide the pilot group, and maybe even get rid of some pilots of their choosing. Sure, the union attempted to counter, but I seriously doubt they expected the company to accept it without negotiating. What they absolutely had to challenge was managements unilateral power to choose who and when, without any scrutiny. The VSP can still be negotiated if management actually wants to get serious about offering it.

 

[Imissmypilot]

V1 you say the Flex guys outsmarted the options guys on the SLI, but your not a IGM. You prefer brain dead label pilot over me. MR I got my 30%. But your not a IGM. As blatantly harsh as I am I have always argued for equality for everyone until recently. I say what everyone else is thinking kinda like TRUMP. When I am sitting talking to a group of pilots on the road, Netjets, TMC, XO guys. A lot of them make me look mild on how they speak of Flexs arrogance and stupidity at the same time. Oh and I will never give up the Booze or heavy Metal maybe you should try it. Get away from the TEXASS TWO STEP.

Missmypilot very good points however I still believe that the union could have signed off on the VSP the way it was presented instead of fighting for a BETTER DEAL, I feel the deal was more then most of the ones looking to leave deserve in the first place. Why couldn't they have LOA it sign off and be done with it? It has really hurt the support even union supporters didn't agree with the decision but again won't speak out publicly. I'm glad the judge ruled in favor of the union I just think that's a battle that could have been avoided

Regarding SLI I don't think Flex outsmarted anyone. You have to remember 25 or so Flex pilots became the sacrificial lambs for both groups. I'm willing to drop it and believe it is the best they could do. However realize what happend softened the top 34 and hardended those 25, some of whom were the biggest part of the silent army of union supporters who are no longer.

Your comments here are the reason there is still so much disgust and hatred for Options over at the Flex side. That does a lot more damage than anything SLI ever did. The two sides need to get along in order to move forward.

Regarding VSP, they could not just "accept it". For one, they have a duty - DUTY- to negotiate. Secondly, part of what they were negotiating was management's cherry picking and arbitrary, secret selection process. Perhaps you were drunk when you replied but do you seriously think this situation would be any better if the union rolled over and said yes without any advocacy on our behalf?

When are people going to realize any and every plan or opportunity coming out of this management team has the goal first of challenging the union's image and company/pilot needs second?

Whether it's VSP, Red Label, fence refusal or an SLI lawsuit they brought etc... the company has ulterior motives in everything. That's our chairman and CEO, men who at their core, have disdain and superiority to us regular sticks. But here you are fighting against your own? I don't get it.

 

[shanes123]

Just trying to get a clarification on V1rotates remark they outsmarted the options guys. That's why there's no solidarity. Has nothing to do with anything I say. Thank you though for the compliment that what I say on a message board carries so much weight. The truth is the Flex pilots have the worst reputation in the industry. And they earned it all on their own. Again as much as I would like to take credit that my posts here have such a devasting effect. The truth is all the other pilots at the other companies are constantly saying on the road. " are they really that stupid" my answer is yes they are. And again I just am posting here what everyone else is saying like it or not. I could give a F about being politically correct and unlike some of you on here that think all your sweet words to the non union IGM pilots is gonna make them see the light. Well it shoulda taken 2 days under KRs management to see the light 2 weeks for the slow ones 2 years and counting and they still can't figure it out? Hopeless.

 

[V1 Rotate]

The arrogant pr$cks are the Flex pilots. And that's not just a options sides view. The whole industry has come to see Flexs true colors. Netjets pilots , TMC pilots, their all on the road talking about how arrogant and stupid you all are. And your idiot talking mouth on the VUH isn't helping your cause. You POS made out better on the SLI even the FING judge said so. But again your arrogance and stupidity stand in the way of seeing any of it. Self Serving, hypocrites, A kissers. Why you think KR bought you losers instead of CA. That was no accident, he saw what idiots you where and knew it was his best shot at beating the union. Those CA guys where a stand up group of professionals. A word you clowns have no idea what it means. Where's you're precious management that KR FIRED!!!!! Way back when ( read my past posts I'm sure it's in there somewhere ) I wanted equality for everyone but you flex fools don't deserve a damn thing. The union is here to stay and the leader ship we have is the best there is. They are a moral ethical group of guys. Words you guys will never understand. If any of you guys worked for Netjets especially FW you would have been ran off the property a long time ago. That's my rant for the night. Time for a few more Vodkas. Deuces B$tches

And you epitomize the very image that every pilot in the industry had of Flight Options. A loser, not very bright, bottom of the barrel pilot who probably couldn't find another job worth having if your life depended on it. You really need to lay off the booze and heavy metal (I've seen your Facebook page). We have our problems here at Flex but I'll take FW over you any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I seriously think your mental issues are worse than Ricci's. Yes, he's a narcissist, but you're a raving lunatic. You're one of the jackasses that I had to dismiss when I decided to join the Union and start volunteering my services, which I'm still waiting to see you sign up for something. But to be honest, I'd rather you not. You can't even handle yourself on Flight Info, no way I'm going into battle with you on any committee. If us Flex guys are so inferior, how is it that you got so outsmarted with the SLI?

Shanes, you, not I, initially stated (in your fourth sentence above) that your guys got outsmarted. I just simply asked you how that could be since we're so inferior, among a host of other names you called us? You started this back and forth, not me.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Sixth sentence.

 

[doh]

Fifth sentence if you correct his grammar.

 

[shanes123]

I know this does no good but I wanna point out the obvious here. You go sit a KR little Q&A and you either get a G450 type rating for it (which your seniority would never ever hold) or a Grey Shirt and a 30% bump. You speak out on Yammer against the Union and you become a Flight Safety Manager. Does anyone not see the CULTure with this management? I wonder if I kick the president of the 1108 in the balls if I could get JS job? Hmmmmm maybe he should start walking around wearing a cup.

 

[doh]

It would be funny...except it's sad. I can't argue with what you said right there. But once in a while you might consider those of us who aren't doing those things instead of running us down. That probably won't do any good to say either.