I wonder if General Lackie

[enuffalready]

WiLL FINALLY SHUT IT...when it is announced that yes...planes bigger than our current 700 will be at ASA.

Im sure he'll try his feable attempt at spin that, it's only a couple, and how they stood firm..blah blah. The same guy that quoted that not one single plane bigger would be allowed...and how every single guy he flew was firm on scope....how the the ALPA guys was a '200 cpt, sp he truly knows the plight of the junior guy... and how his dad was bigger than my dad...

 

[CFIT]

We can dream but your right he'll spin like he alone got exactly what was needed. Maybe General Disaster and his suck buddy 73 will take a well deserved honeymoon together.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Hopefully scope is firm on 70 seats. Though the NWA TA hurt the chance of that allowing 76 seats to be outsourced. I hope GL was right.

 

[WSurf]

Yea... but I think he was wrong thinking they would strike, and he said no more paycuts!!!! Doooope!!!!

 

[johnsonrod]

WiLL FINALLY SHUT IT...when it is announced that yes...planes bigger than our current 700 will be at ASA.

Im sure he'll try his feable attempt at spin that, it's only a couple, and how they stood firm..blah blah. The same guy that quoted that not one single plane bigger would be allowed...and how every single guy he flew was firm on scope....how the the ALPA guys was a '200 cpt, sp he truly knows the plight of the junior guy... and how his dad was bigger than my dad...

Seriously, you are a disgrace. From one regional pilot to another. I don't want to fly bigger jets at lower rates. Don't you get that you friggen moron? You want to bring down the rates on the larger jets - that's stupid thinking. Why don't you get off your a$$ and apply to CAL or AirTran and attempt to earn more money there vs. bringing down the mainline rates to regional rates? Why do so many regional pilots miss this critical point? I guess people are scared to interview because they know they can't compete in an interview situation.

I thought Delta wanted 79 seaters - why 76 seaters now? I am predicting a strike threat and more negotiations.

 

[johnsonrod]

We can dream but your right he'll spin like he alone got exactly what was needed. Maybe General Disaster and his suck buddy 73 will take a well deserved honeymoon together.

Let me guess - you're a Skywest jacka$$? You guys ruined the industry by agreeing to one payrate through 99 seats. That was a terrible idea and now you want others to suffer. And your company wasn't even near bankruptcy... But you got growth...

How do you look at yourself in the mirror? I hate my regional job and the fact that your airline has set the low bar, now I have to get out... At least the Delta pilots have BALL$ - hope they turn down any TA that doesn't work for them.

Seriously, you Skywest guys are no better than Mesa pilots - you have reshaped the regional industry to the detriment of all other regional pilots. Great job CFIT!!!!!!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

You want some cheese with that whine?

 

[johnsonrod]

You want some cheese with that whine?

Dave, if you can't respond intelligently then you are part of the problem. At least the DAL guys have ball$ and try to stick up for themselves and their profession. Somebody has to draw a line in the sand. If you were a DAL pilot I bet you would do the same to preserve your wages and QOL.

Instead, you and your pilot group stood idly by and bent over. You should feel great about that. Hope you enjoy flying CR9s for CRJ-200 wages - I would be so proud...

 

[Bluto]

Let me guess - you're a Skywest jacka$$? ...I hate my regional job and the fact that your airline has set the low bar, now I have to get out...

So, you hate your job. Most SkyWest pilots don't hate their jobs. Why not blame your, apparently, subpar company for your miserable job instead of other pilots. Tell you what, though, I'm glad you're getting out. I seriously doubt you'll be missed.

 

[Rogue5]

I hate my regional job and the fact that your airline has set the low bar, now I have to get out...

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!

 

[ArcticFlier]

Let me guess - you're a Skywest jacka$$? You guys ruined the industry by agreeing to one payrate through 99 seats. That was a terrible idea and now you want others to suffer. And your company wasn't even near bankruptcy... But you got growth...

How do you look at yourself in the mirror? I hate my regional job and the fact that your airline has set the low bar, now I have to get out... At least the Delta pilots have BALL$ - hope they turn down any TA that doesn't work for them.

Seriously, you Skywest guys are no better than Mesa pilots - you have reshaped the regional industry to the detriment of all other regional pilots. Great job CFIT!!!!!!

Love you too..............




Kisses,



AF

 

[BSkin]

I hate my regional job and the fact that your airline has set the low bar, now I have to get out... At least the Delta pilots have BALL$ - hope they turn down any TA that doesn't work for them.

Too bad you guys that are bashing john don't realize he's right. Regionals suck, but a necessary evil for lots. If it's your goal to stay there, more power to you. I give huge credit to the Delta pilots, maybe until I see the details of the TA.

 

[Deadalus]

Johnsonrod don't pay too much heed to them they're obviously junior. All the guys and gals I know that have been with Skywest over 7-8yrs aren't happy. These dummy's after a few more years will pull their heads out, look around and wonder "Is this all there is?". The reply will be, "Yes moron thanks to you this is all there is"

 

[NoJoy]

FREEDOM will grow

 

[wmuflyguy]

FREEDOM will grow

I thought your avatar was a vagina for a second, but then noticed it is a space ship. With your comment though it might as well be a vagina.

 

[enuffalready]

Yes I am a disgrace....

..........

 

[enuffalready]

Seriously, you are a disgrace. From one regional pilot to another. I don't want to fly bigger jets at lower rates. Don't you get that you friggen moron? You want to bring down the rates on the larger jets - that's stupid thinking. Why don't you get off your a$$ and apply to CAL or AirTran and attempt to earn more money there vs. bringing down the mainline rates to regional rates? Why do so many regional pilots miss this critical point? I guess people are scared to interview because they know they can't compete in an interview situation.

I thought Delta wanted 79 seaters - why 76 seaters now? I am predicting a strike threat and more negotiations.

I know... total disgrace... And I agree... total friggen idiot. All i did was get off my a$$ a few years ago when this whole downward spiral began and made some serious $$. This, all at the same time you were building your precious 1000 JET PIC Now I get to fly for the reason I got into it, because I enjoy it and don't really care if DAL votes themselves out of existence. If i get to fly a bigger plane, great. If I don't, oh well. If DAL shuts down... guess what, I can focus and make even more money and be home every night?? How tragic.. But you said it... I'm the moran, right? NO, I think I will give up the job, the pay, etc just so I can fly a 73 or 88 to more interesting places. Maybe, even fly with the GL one day so he can show me the pics of his hot wife that he keeps in his hat.

 

[Illinois]

The Skywest pilot group, without question, continued the erosion of pay rates for our jet equipment. Unfortunately, the "historian's" on this thread are short sighted. Let's look back beyond the "we work in a vacuum" 18 month agreement at Skywest.

-Type ratings required to interview.
-Paying for training.
-RJ's being flown in mainline paint.
-ALPA's industry forcasting 10 or 15 years ago

All you tough guys can, and should remind some Skywesters that we collectively F'd up a few years ago. But blaming us for all the industry woes is a bit naive!

As to the Delta TA...I sincerely hope they do not capitulate to mngmt's request for scope relief. I'd like to see them get some of the small jet feed back under the mainline umbrella from Skywest and others.

Best wishes to the Delta guys and girls, and Happy Easter to everyone.

 

[propjockey]

Why don't you get off your a$$ and apply to CAL or AirTran and attempt to earn more money there vs. bringing down the mainline rates to regional rates? (emphasis added)

So what you're saying is AirTran and the other Wal-Mart carriers have had nothing to do with bringing down the pay at mainline? Sorry, my friend. I think you can boil the low pay down to four major factors:

• Trailer park carriers like AirTran, Southwest, JetBlue driving down fares to unsustainable levels and creating an industry-wide "B-scale" with their (formerly) substantially lower pilot pay
• Wanton mis-management at the majors (the lady that sold Delta's fuel hedges for a pittance should locked up in a psych ward) including idiotic fare sales when the airplanes are already bursting at the seams because they're so full.
• Not welcoming RJs on the property at mainline when they first appeared (I don't think you'll ever get that horse back in the barn). Most guys at the majors seem to freely admit now that this was a huge mistake on the part of ALPA. You can't fairly blame those who are "junior" now because they're flying a jet. That's just the way it is now. It's not their fault they're not in a little turboprop for 2 years before moving on to mainline like it used to be. It's those who came before and the management who screwed that up. If you believe you can do anything to change that, perhaps you should do one of these "walks across America" and pass out ribbons at all flight schools to raise awareness that all up-and-coming pilots are harming the industry through their desire to fly.
• Finally, I think some of you have been way too quick to forget the terrorist acts of 9/11 immediately followed by an overly harsh knee-jerk reaction by our federal government that shut everything down for 4 days, made everyone scared to fly for 2 years, and turned our airports into police states that were no longer pleasant places to be where they frisked my 5-year-old child and 90-year-old veterans in wheel chairs (I've seen both) so as not to offend any Arabs. Where 100% of the people (including flight crews) are assumed to be terrorists 100% of the time. These events have had a cataclysmic effect on the airlines.

I'm not going to include it in my bullet points, but it probably should be. Some of you myopic, militant, bitter regional (and a few majors like our friend the General) pilots who complain so loudly on this board about everything need to open your eyes and see the forest for the trees. Wal-Martification is occuring nationwide, and in virtually every industry. Your next-door-neighbour, and especially your CEO, would gladly sell you down the river to put an extra 5 cents in his pocket. Don't make the mistake of thinking that this lowering of the standard of living is happening only at the airlines. Greed pervades corporate America in a way now that we probably haven't seen since Upton Sinclair.

Just keep in mind that raging against junior RJ pilots in this country, and even more so, those who are still pursuing their dream to fly professionally in the best way they know how, is like blaming a new-born baby for something its mother did 15 years before he was born. Shiny Jet Syndrome is nothing new. If you doubt that, re-read the first few pages of Fate is the Hunter. You will see that nothing has changed, except that back then it might have been referred to as Shiny DC-3 Syndrome. Almost every newhire is excited until some of them become jaded and bitter when the world doesn't go their way.

johnsonrod, if you're this bitter now, you probably need to get out and go find something you love to do. There's no reason to think that you'd be any happier in this industry if you made 3 or even 30 times as much as you make now.

In my 5 years in this industry so far, I've found basically two kinds of pilots with very little in between: those who love to fly, and those who hate to fly but did it for the _________ (money, prestige, captain's hat).

 

[nimtz]

And the garbage continues...

I think we need to have a dedicated board to DAL/RJDC/ASA/Skywest/Comair issues. Heck the threads should even have starting templates to save you guys time on typing ie 'General Lee is a fool' or 'DAL ALPA out to hose ASA'.

 

[Standby 1]

So what you're saying is AirTran and the other Wal-Mart carriers have had nothing to do with bringing down the pay at mainline? Sorry, my friend. I think you can boil the low pay down to four major factors:

• Trailer park carriers like AirTran, Southwest, JetBlue driving down fares to unsustainable levels and creating an industry-wide "B-scale" with their (formerly) substantially lower pilot pay
• Wanton mis-management at the majors (the lady that sold Delta's fuel hedges for a pittance should locked up in a psych ward) including idiotic fare sales when the airplanes are already bursting at the seams because they're so full.
• Not welcoming RJs on the property at mainline when they first appeared (I don't think you'll ever get that horse back in the barn). Most guys at the majors seem to freely admit now that this was a huge mistake on the part of ALPA. You can't fairly blame those who are "junior" now because they're flying a jet. That's just the way it is now. It's not their fault they're not in a little turboprop for 2 years before moving on to mainline like it used to be. It's those who came before and the management who screwed that up. If you believe you can do anything to change that, perhaps you should do one of these "walks across America" and pass out ribbons at all flight schools to raise awareness that all up-and-coming pilots are harming the industry through their desire to fly.
• Finally, I think some of you have been way too quick to forget the terrorist acts of 9/11 immediately followed by an overly harsh knee-jerk reaction by our federal government that shut everything down for 4 days, made everyone scared to fly for 2 years, and turned our airports into police states that were no longer pleasant places to be where they frisked my 5-year-old child and 90-year-old veterans in wheel chairs (I've seen both) so as not to offend any Arabs. Where 100% of the people (including flight crews) are assumed to be terrorists 100% of the time. These events have had a cataclysmic effect on the airlines.

I'm not going to include it in my bullet points, but it probably should be. Some of you myopic, militant, bitter regional (and a few majors like our friend the General) pilots who complain so loudly on this board about everything need to open your eyes and see the forest for the trees. Wal-Martification is occuring nationwide, and in virtually every industry. Your next-door-neighbour, and especially your CEO, would gladly sell you down the river to put an extra 5 cents in his pocket. Don't make the mistake of thinking that this lowering of the standard of living is happening only at the airlines. Greed pervades corporate America in a way now that we probably haven't seen since Upton Sinclair.

Just keep in mind that raging against junior RJ pilots in this country, and even more so, those who are still pursuing their dream to fly professionally in the best way they know how, is like blaming a new-born baby for something its mother did 15 years before he was born. Shiny Jet Syndrome is nothing new. If you doubt that, re-read the first few pages of Fate is the Hunter. You will see that nothing has changed, except that back then it might have been referred to as Shiny DC-3 Syndrome. Almost every newhire is excited until some of them become jaded and bitter when the world doesn't go their way.


In my 5 years in this industry so far, I've found basically two kinds of pilots with very little in between: those who love to fly, and those who hate to fly but did it for the _________ (money, prestige, captain's hat).

Gotta agree here. Well written post. What's going on in our industry is going on everywhere, but that doesn't make it right. We live in a culture of greed and everywhere you look, it's all about ME ME ME. Our "race to the bottom" (apologies for the over-used phrase), is simply a manifestation of this.

Can it be stopped? Well, if I were still young and idealistic I'd say that if each and every person made a personal pledge to stop that mentality, we'd stand a chance. But being the jaded and pessimistic person I've turned into, I think the reality of the situation is that it will only get worse.

No one looks to the future anymore. It's all about grabbing as much as you can RIGHT NOW. And that's applicable both in business and in our everyday lives.

But I refuse to give into the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" mentality. I, for one, am not interested in any more routes or aircraft from the legacy carriers. Although I'd like to see regional pay increase, I'd much rather see legacy carrier pilot pay return to it's previous levels and their contracts solidify. And yes, that's selfish of me, because I'd like to reap their rewards someday. Ending up at a strong, well-paying legacy carrier is much, much more important to me than flying a larger airplane at my current pay rate.

 

[Heavy Set]

At the end of the day, the Delta mainliners are trying to hold their ground and not fold like the Jet Blue, Skywest and Mesa guys. You have to give them credit for at least standing their ground. But no - instead you find many pilots on these boards who literally revel in their difficult situation... They celebrate while they should instead look in the mirror and see how they have contributed to the downfall of this business. It is easy to celebrate the misfortune of others...

We won't know the full details of the Delta situation until mid-week I am told. So, it is too early to debate the issue. I have a feeling that any change in scope will be met with fierce resistance and that a strike is still very possible.

 

[BSkin]

Propjockey, don't forget Southwest, who began it all. People (pilots) don't have much of a choice these days other than go to Southwest, Airtran, Jetblue, and now Continental. These same pilots, me included, would love to have it like it was 10 years ago. Public demand dictates, unfortunately. All I know is that I was pretty happy to get into Airtran, and am making a good living for me and my wife. If people like the General (trust me I don't like most of his crap) and the rest of the Delta pilots give up the ship, it's worse for all of us!

 

[D'Angelo]

Seriously, you are a disgrace. From one regional pilot to another. I don't want to fly bigger jets at lower rates. Don't you get that you friggen moron? You want to bring down the rates on the larger jets - that's stupid thinking. Why don't you get off your a$$ and apply to CAL or AirTran and attempt to earn more money there vs. bringing down the mainline rates to regional rates? Why do so many regional pilots miss this critical point? I guess people are scared to interview because they know they can't compete in an interview situation.

I thought Delta wanted 79 seaters - why 76 seaters now? I am predicting a strike threat and more negotiations.

Another sheep to the slaughter here ill respond like im supposed to. "FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT" BUY THIS MAN A BEER. HOOAH!

Seriously man your another brainwashed mainline is god person. If bigger planes find their way onto property thats not mainline im not complaining. More growth = more pay = more QOL. Going to a major = rolling the dice, less job security, etc. Another person who doesn't get it.

 

[goodto50meters]

Love you too..............




Kisses,



AF

Peace Love Dope.

Oh yeah, and Lesbians too!

 

[General Lee]

The negotiators are the only ones to really agree on this TA, and it still needs to be voted on by the MEC members, and then it possibly could come to us members. Most of the reps I have talked to (even Thurs, the day before the TA came out) stated they would not accept a TA with DCI getting more than 70 seat RJs. They will be held to their word. I talked to many people getting off my 3 day trip today and they were all fired up, mad about the scope and telling me they would vote NO to a TA allowing that scope erosion. We still haven't seen the full TA, so this is all moot right now. But, the anger is there, and it may be turned down prior to coming to a membership vote.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[WSurf]

But, the anger is there, and it may be turned down prior to coming to a membership vote.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Atleast you went from 'Will be Turned Down' to now 'May be Turned Down'!!

No, Yes, Yes!!!

 

[Heavy Set]

The negotiators are the only ones to really agree on this TA, and it still needs to be voted on by the MEC members, and then it possibly could come to us members. Most of the reps I have talked to (even Thurs, the day before the TA came out) stated they would not accept a TA with DCI getting more than 70 seat RJs. They will be held to their word. I talked to many people getting off my 3 day trip today and they were all fired up, mad about the scope and telling me they would vote NO to a TA allowing that scope erosion. We still haven't seen the full TA, so this is all moot right now. But, the anger is there, and it may be turned down prior to coming to a membership vote.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Let's hope that any scope changes are renegotiated. I don't understand how any ALPA negotiators could even consider scope changes given the extremely clear viewpoint of the Delta pilot group... 95% authorized a possible strike - clearly they are intent on protecting scope. And yet the ALPA idiots might have ignored that important point - we'll anxiously await the TA details on Tuesday/Wednesday. If scope has been changed, there will need to be some union changes - BIG TIME...

 

[No Delay]

Man, can someone please give the General a little bump? His record seems to be stuck in the same spot.

I wonder how many times the General has said he will vote "no" on this TA? Man, just vote NO. Who cares?


That aside, I am always surprised at the blame game that goes on here. Mesa is lowering the bar, Skywest is lowering the bar, ASA is lowering the bar, JetBlue, AirTran....but Delta....that billon dollars in concessions....well, our situation was different. What??????

I realize everytime mainline loses an airplane to a regional it is bad for the entire industry. I would love to see delta get all there flying back. But what I would love most is for the delta pilots (as a whole) to acknowledge that they have played a bigger role in the down spiral of this industry than all the regionals put together.

You gave your flying away because you thought you were above flying a small airplane. There was no way you were going to agree to "One List" which would have created a huge pilot group and benefit ASA, Comair, and Delta. You created the monster and now it is out of control. Now that Delta has been knocked off their pedal, the attitude is changing to that of Mesa (I don't care about pay...just give me an airplane). (Well, that's pushing a bit...but there has definately been a change in thinking.

I think most regional pilots understand that it is better for everyone if their mainline is doing well. We want Delta to pull out of this! We want to support you. But I think you would get a LOT MORE support if you guys could lose a little of the "I'm better than you, my airplane is bigger, you're lowering the bar" attitude.

 

[General Lee]

Man, can someone please give the General a little bump? His record seems to be stuck in the same spot.

I wonder how many times the General has said he will vote "no" on this TA? Man, just vote NO. Who cares?


That aside, I am always surprised at the blame game that goes on here. Mesa is lowering the bar, Skywest is lowering the bar, ASA is lowering the bar, JetBlue, AirTran....but Delta....that billon dollars in concessions....well, our situation was different. What??????

I realize everytime mainline loses an airplane to a regional it is bad for the entire industry. I would love to see delta get all there flying back. But what I would love most is for the delta pilots (as a whole) to acknowledge that they have played a bigger role in the down spiral of this industry than all the regionals put together.

You gave your flying away because you thought you were above flying a small airplane. There was no way you were going to agree to "One List" which would have created a huge pilot group and benefit ASA, Comair, and Delta. You created the monster and now it is out of control. Now that Delta has been knocked off their pedal, the attitude is changing to that of Mesa (I don't care about pay...just give me an airplane). (Well, that's pushing a bit...but there has definately been a change in thinking.

I think most regional pilots understand that it is better for everyone if their mainline is doing well. We want Delta to pull out of this! We want to support you. But I think you would get a LOT MORE support if you guys could lose a little of the "I'm better than you, my airplane is bigger, you're lowering the bar" attitude.

You have that all wrong man. I am not saying I am better than you. I know what it is like to be a regional or a "commuter" as it was called back in the early 90s. What I am telling you is how I will vote on a TA that has scope issues I don't agree with. I am telling you what my opinion is, and how I think most of my peers will vote. You can give your opinion, that is fine too. Take a chill pill and understand I am just giving my opinion, which is allowed I believe.


Bye Bye--General Lee