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I want my $50 back!
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mar
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You see, here's the problem:
I'm no Ernie Gann. Nor am I the only DC6 pilot on this board. Not only that, but I'm afraid I'm not infused with the proper amount of nostaglia necessary to wax poetic about the big Doug.
Is it just a job? No, it's an adventure too. I honestly never know where I'm going to spend the night. There are far too many variables in a regular DC6 operation. I suppose I could list them but you can probably guess the big ones.
So to the question about lifestyle, well, it can be tough but what flying job isn't tough on lifestyle.
When we work, we work hard and fast.
All right, I feel "A Day in the Life" coming on. Maybe we can start a new thread about that...?
Here's the deal. About an hour and a half before departure the FE shows up for the preflight and fueling. He'll start in the cockpit and check things like the fire warning system, electrical system, hydraulic system. He'll also check all of the fuel boost pumps and the warning horns (takeoff and gear). After the cockpit is finished he'll go outside for the walk around. Obvious stuff: gear pins, hydraulics, uplocks, lights, tires, brakes, etc.
All that should take about 30 minutes. By then the FO and Capt should be sauntering in the door. Have a look at the release and the weather and the load and give a fuel load to the engineer...who goes back out to the plane, unless one of us was cool enough to go out there and tell him what the fuel load was.
The FE will take the planes 14' ladder and climb on top of the wing (in every weather condition, it doesn't matter. If it's snowing he'll also take a broom with him--if he's smart). The plane has 4 main fuel tanks and 4 aux tanks for a total capacity of 5404 gals of 100LL. That's 32,424# of fuel at a high power cruise setting of 1200bhp at 2400#/hr that's roughly 13.5 hours endurance. A more typical fuel load for our flights is between 9,500# and 12,500#.
The old joke about running out of oil before running out of fuel is a true comment. Each engine carries 30 gals of oil. We figure a 10 gal burn for the first hour and then 4 gals for every hour or leg after that.
And then there's the water/methanol mix: 10 gals per engine. That'll give you about 3 to 4 "wet" takeoffs depending on temperature and technique.
A lot of this airplane's weight, as you can tell, is just carrying itself around. It has an empty weight of about 59,000#. It'll carry a cabin load of about 28,000# and has a max takeoff weight of 103,800# when using water injection and auto-feather.
The engines will develop a max 2400bhp at takeoff. Max 2800RPM. Max 59.5"MP. There's a formula for calculating bhp from BMEP and RPM but I don't remember it off the top of my head.
Bottom line with the BMEP gauge is that it's basically a torque gauge measuring power at the prop but they're not even calibrated. So we only use them for leaning (12 drop) and as a general power instrument. I usually take a nice scan of the BMEPs, MPs, RPMs and oil and fuel pressures after the 60 knot call but before V1.
The unusual thing about the DC6 (maybe other large recips too, I don't know) is that the FE handles the throttles except during the flare on landing. During takeoffs the pilot's hand is on the throttles until V1 in case of an abort but the FE is setting MP and monitoring RPMs, water, oil and fuel pressures.
After takeoff the FE will be busy looking at all 144 spark plugs (one at a time) on a scope. He'll be looking for patterns that will indicate shorted leads, fouled plugs, low compression, etc. Simultaneously he'll also be adjusting cowl flaps to maintain 170 degrees on the CHTs and maintaining climb power with the throttles.
This airplane belongs rightfully so to the engineer and then the Capt. It is really a huge responsibility for someone who is typically new to the company. In fact, I understand Air Atlantique, a British operator, puts new hires in the right seat and then upgrades them to engineer and then Capt. It seems like a pretty good idea to me as I've come to believe that the most useless person in a three person cockpit is the FO.
The FO is basically just responsible for paperwork, flying every other leg (usually the light one) and trying to stay out of the way of the engineer.
The cockpit wasn't originally designed for an FE. But after a few crashes in the 50's and after some pressure from ALPA (I understand) Douglas was forced to install an FE seat, facing forward between the pilots stradling the center console where they put the trims, mixes, carb heats, flap and gear handles.
The cockpit is huge but it's often an orgy of shoulders, hands and elbows.
Anyway, once leveled in cruise, the FE will lean out the engines and this is usually when a cracked cylinder will rear its ugly head with a nice firm backfire. When that happens the FE will re-enrichen the mix, turn to the scope and determine which cylinder is the offender. At that point the engine is usually feathered (as a Capt once told me: There are no mandatory shut downs when I'm on board) and we return to base to wait for the four to six hour jug change which has made our already long day that much longer.
One of the charming things about working in Alaska is that we operate under 121 supplemental. That's right. There's no "duty day" limits per se. Twelve hours of flying in a 24 hour period. That's it. I was on duty for 20 hours once after a diversion to an airport with no fuel.
Don't ask. Long story.
What else? I don't know. When it's light it flys like a seminole. When it's heavy it flys like a big boat. It has a real fat straight wing so it can handle big loads on crappy strips. The gear is stout--very stout. The systems are redundant. The beautiful thing about the Six is that if something breaks there's usually another way to get it to work.
All of the heaters (3 wing, 1 cabin) have dual ignition and cross feed capability.
The carbs have heat and alcohol.
The windscreen has heat and alcohol.
Pressurization is automatic/manual or...coffee-grinder (nevermind). Two cabin super-chargers.
Electrical: One GEN can handle the entire load. Three inverters. Engine instruments get power from two. The third is for emergencies when on BATT power.
Two engine driven HYD pumps and one elect. aux pump. In case of total loss of HYD the brakes have an emer air press tank.
The props are reversible up to METO power and quite effective but they get tempermental when it gets really cold. Blade switches stick and sometimes they get stuck in reverse or just go to feather when coming out of reverse. This is where an experienced and knowledgeable FE comes in very handy. Talk about arm pits and elbows...
It is an amazing airplane considering it was designed only 40 years after the Wright Flyer. It was, at one point, state of the art. You can see those guys in Santa Monica actually sat down and thought about what they were gonna build. The design is a proven success no doubt about it. And I've been accused of being bitter and twisted but the truth of the matter is that I'm proud to work for a company that has been operating DC6s longer than anyone else in the world. We've had two hull losses (one fatal) in 48 years of business. And it's not like these things get pampered. They work all year-round, all around the clock in every conceivable condition. The fact of the matter is we abuse them.
We've de-clutched the high-blowers and run the lowest possible octane while making full power wet take offs. We have the least experienced crews ever. Every take off and almost every landing is overweight--and not always greased, let me tell you. And then we'll take this poor machine that was designed to cross an ocean and we'll do 10 shuttles a day to an airport that's 15 mins away when it's -30F. Tell me that's not tough on the structure and the engines.
Is it no wonder she smokes, spits, coughs, squeaks, rattles, moans and slowly shudders everytime she gets off.
It's the moaning and shudders I like best.
There. That's flying a DC6.
I'm no Ernie Gann. Nor am I the only DC6 pilot on this board. Not only that, but I'm afraid I'm not infused with the proper amount of nostaglia necessary to wax poetic about the big Doug.
Is it just a job? No, it's an adventure too. I honestly never know where I'm going to spend the night. There are far too many variables in a regular DC6 operation. I suppose I could list them but you can probably guess the big ones.
So to the question about lifestyle, well, it can be tough but what flying job isn't tough on lifestyle.
When we work, we work hard and fast.
All right, I feel "A Day in the Life" coming on. Maybe we can start a new thread about that...?
Here's the deal. About an hour and a half before departure the FE shows up for the preflight and fueling. He'll start in the cockpit and check things like the fire warning system, electrical system, hydraulic system. He'll also check all of the fuel boost pumps and the warning horns (takeoff and gear). After the cockpit is finished he'll go outside for the walk around. Obvious stuff: gear pins, hydraulics, uplocks, lights, tires, brakes, etc.
All that should take about 30 minutes. By then the FO and Capt should be sauntering in the door. Have a look at the release and the weather and the load and give a fuel load to the engineer...who goes back out to the plane, unless one of us was cool enough to go out there and tell him what the fuel load was.
The FE will take the planes 14' ladder and climb on top of the wing (in every weather condition, it doesn't matter. If it's snowing he'll also take a broom with him--if he's smart). The plane has 4 main fuel tanks and 4 aux tanks for a total capacity of 5404 gals of 100LL. That's 32,424# of fuel at a high power cruise setting of 1200bhp at 2400#/hr that's roughly 13.5 hours endurance. A more typical fuel load for our flights is between 9,500# and 12,500#.
The old joke about running out of oil before running out of fuel is a true comment. Each engine carries 30 gals of oil. We figure a 10 gal burn for the first hour and then 4 gals for every hour or leg after that.
And then there's the water/methanol mix: 10 gals per engine. That'll give you about 3 to 4 "wet" takeoffs depending on temperature and technique.
A lot of this airplane's weight, as you can tell, is just carrying itself around. It has an empty weight of about 59,000#. It'll carry a cabin load of about 28,000# and has a max takeoff weight of 103,800# when using water injection and auto-feather.
The engines will develop a max 2400bhp at takeoff. Max 2800RPM. Max 59.5"MP. There's a formula for calculating bhp from BMEP and RPM but I don't remember it off the top of my head.
Bottom line with the BMEP gauge is that it's basically a torque gauge measuring power at the prop but they're not even calibrated. So we only use them for leaning (12 drop) and as a general power instrument. I usually take a nice scan of the BMEPs, MPs, RPMs and oil and fuel pressures after the 60 knot call but before V1.
The unusual thing about the DC6 (maybe other large recips too, I don't know) is that the FE handles the throttles except during the flare on landing. During takeoffs the pilot's hand is on the throttles until V1 in case of an abort but the FE is setting MP and monitoring RPMs, water, oil and fuel pressures.
After takeoff the FE will be busy looking at all 144 spark plugs (one at a time) on a scope. He'll be looking for patterns that will indicate shorted leads, fouled plugs, low compression, etc. Simultaneously he'll also be adjusting cowl flaps to maintain 170 degrees on the CHTs and maintaining climb power with the throttles.
This airplane belongs rightfully so to the engineer and then the Capt. It is really a huge responsibility for someone who is typically new to the company. In fact, I understand Air Atlantique, a British operator, puts new hires in the right seat and then upgrades them to engineer and then Capt. It seems like a pretty good idea to me as I've come to believe that the most useless person in a three person cockpit is the FO.
The FO is basically just responsible for paperwork, flying every other leg (usually the light one) and trying to stay out of the way of the engineer.
The cockpit wasn't originally designed for an FE. But after a few crashes in the 50's and after some pressure from ALPA (I understand) Douglas was forced to install an FE seat, facing forward between the pilots stradling the center console where they put the trims, mixes, carb heats, flap and gear handles.
The cockpit is huge but it's often an orgy of shoulders, hands and elbows.
Anyway, once leveled in cruise, the FE will lean out the engines and this is usually when a cracked cylinder will rear its ugly head with a nice firm backfire. When that happens the FE will re-enrichen the mix, turn to the scope and determine which cylinder is the offender. At that point the engine is usually feathered (as a Capt once told me: There are no mandatory shut downs when I'm on board) and we return to base to wait for the four to six hour jug change which has made our already long day that much longer.
One of the charming things about working in Alaska is that we operate under 121 supplemental. That's right. There's no "duty day" limits per se. Twelve hours of flying in a 24 hour period. That's it. I was on duty for 20 hours once after a diversion to an airport with no fuel.
Don't ask. Long story.
What else? I don't know. When it's light it flys like a seminole. When it's heavy it flys like a big boat. It has a real fat straight wing so it can handle big loads on crappy strips. The gear is stout--very stout. The systems are redundant. The beautiful thing about the Six is that if something breaks there's usually another way to get it to work.
All of the heaters (3 wing, 1 cabin) have dual ignition and cross feed capability.
The carbs have heat and alcohol.
The windscreen has heat and alcohol.
Pressurization is automatic/manual or...coffee-grinder (nevermind). Two cabin super-chargers.
Electrical: One GEN can handle the entire load. Three inverters. Engine instruments get power from two. The third is for emergencies when on BATT power.
Two engine driven HYD pumps and one elect. aux pump. In case of total loss of HYD the brakes have an emer air press tank.
The props are reversible up to METO power and quite effective but they get tempermental when it gets really cold. Blade switches stick and sometimes they get stuck in reverse or just go to feather when coming out of reverse. This is where an experienced and knowledgeable FE comes in very handy. Talk about arm pits and elbows...
It is an amazing airplane considering it was designed only 40 years after the Wright Flyer. It was, at one point, state of the art. You can see those guys in Santa Monica actually sat down and thought about what they were gonna build. The design is a proven success no doubt about it. And I've been accused of being bitter and twisted but the truth of the matter is that I'm proud to work for a company that has been operating DC6s longer than anyone else in the world. We've had two hull losses (one fatal) in 48 years of business. And it's not like these things get pampered. They work all year-round, all around the clock in every conceivable condition. The fact of the matter is we abuse them.
We've de-clutched the high-blowers and run the lowest possible octane while making full power wet take offs. We have the least experienced crews ever. Every take off and almost every landing is overweight--and not always greased, let me tell you. And then we'll take this poor machine that was designed to cross an ocean and we'll do 10 shuttles a day to an airport that's 15 mins away when it's -30F. Tell me that's not tough on the structure and the engines.
Is it no wonder she smokes, spits, coughs, squeaks, rattles, moans and slowly shudders everytime she gets off.
It's the moaning and shudders I like best.
There. That's flying a DC6.
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
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Billy Madison
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mar
Remember this one?
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I didn't even get to the best part
Did I mention the crews load and unload the plane when we're at the out stations? Who else is gonna do it?
I mean, we take our breaks when we're enroute. That's when I decided I was a wired for long-haul. A job like Southwest would be cool, don't get me wrong, but my idea of a good day at work is taking off my jacket, pulling out the newspaper and having a cup of coffee.
Empennage--No sir. I've never met a man named Bill Dodds. I worked for NAC '98-'99 and then 2002 to present.
TB, your questions:
--Engine type, number of cylinders per engine?
Pratt & Whitney R-2800. Two rows of 9 cylinders; 18 cyl each engine.
--Does it fuel like a modern airplane, with a panel under the wing?
There is no single point fueling. You must actually walk on the wing to the various fuel caps--straight into the tank. The FE carries a dipstick for the inboards. The outboards have a dipstick installed in the wing surface.
--Is the FE always A&P rated?
Not always. I'm not. Though the company would like to move towards hiring Professional FEs (PFE).
--That water/methanol mix. What's a "wet takeoff?"
Water injection is a system consisting of a tank filled with a 50/50 mix of water and methanol (Meth to prevent freezing) and a pump. Injecting water thru the fuel feed valve into the blower throat allows the carb to lean for best power. The presence of water in the fuel/air mix absorbs heat from combustion that would otherwise be absorbed by the excess fuel from a full rich mixture. If the takeoff is made with no water injection (light weights) the max "dry" manifold pressure is 53" and the mixture is fully enriched.
Did I mention the crews load and unload the plane when we're at the out stations? Who else is gonna do it?
I mean, we take our breaks when we're enroute. That's when I decided I was a wired for long-haul. A job like Southwest would be cool, don't get me wrong, but my idea of a good day at work is taking off my jacket, pulling out the newspaper and having a cup of coffee.
Empennage--No sir. I've never met a man named Bill Dodds. I worked for NAC '98-'99 and then 2002 to present.
TB, your questions:
--Engine type, number of cylinders per engine?
Pratt & Whitney R-2800. Two rows of 9 cylinders; 18 cyl each engine.
--Does it fuel like a modern airplane, with a panel under the wing?
There is no single point fueling. You must actually walk on the wing to the various fuel caps--straight into the tank. The FE carries a dipstick for the inboards. The outboards have a dipstick installed in the wing surface.
--Is the FE always A&P rated?
Not always. I'm not. Though the company would like to move towards hiring Professional FEs (PFE).
--That water/methanol mix. What's a "wet takeoff?"
Water injection is a system consisting of a tank filled with a 50/50 mix of water and methanol (Meth to prevent freezing) and a pump. Injecting water thru the fuel feed valve into the blower throat allows the carb to lean for best power. The presence of water in the fuel/air mix absorbs heat from combustion that would otherwise be absorbed by the excess fuel from a full rich mixture. If the takeoff is made with no water injection (light weights) the max "dry" manifold pressure is 53" and the mixture is fully enriched.
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StaySeated
IBT does not represent ME
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"The old joke about running out of oil before running out of fuel is a true comment. Each engine carries 30 gals of oil. We figure a 10 gal burn for the first hour and then 4 gals for every hour or leg after that. "
Holy fricken Sh1t!!!!!!!!!Can you see light through the gaps in the cylinders?
Holy fricken Sh1t!!!!!!!!!Can you see light through the gaps in the cylinders?
Cat Driver
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See what happens when someone high jacks a thread........
Hell the next thing you know we will have an aviation discussion...
By the way Mar I'm impressed with your description.. I had the privelage of flying with NWT in yellowknife on the six many years ago...a wonderful airplane sort of a Super Cub with four engines.
Cat Driver:
Hell the next thing you know we will have an aviation discussion...
By the way Mar I'm impressed with your description.. I had the privelage of flying with NWT in yellowknife on the six many years ago...a wonderful airplane sort of a Super Cub with four engines.
Cat Driver:
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
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Mar-
When I worked in a garage, I spent most of my time under the hood, looking at a Sun machine, doing diagnosis.
Can you breifly describe how you are able to get a voltage trace from each of 144 spark plugs? What kind of wiring and switching arrangement is used to accomplish this?
Oh, one more thing:
I'm sure that 100LL was not the original fuel for the DC-6. Were there any mods to accomodate today's available fuel?
When I worked in a garage, I spent most of my time under the hood, looking at a Sun machine, doing diagnosis.
Can you breifly describe how you are able to get a voltage trace from each of 144 spark plugs? What kind of wiring and switching arrangement is used to accomplish this?
Oh, one more thing:
I'm sure that 100LL was not the original fuel for the DC-6. Were there any mods to accomodate today's available fuel?
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I think you just got your $50.00 worth. BTW the information on the religous threads is very impressive. You would pay about $8000.00 for all that infomation via Bible School. I just think that having someone on this board that is willing to put that most effort into stating their views happens to be great. I very much enjoy also reading about the ol' DC-6==I miss it and I miss Alaska.
Freddie Spencer
"That's Hot"
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Timebuilder
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Duke Elegant
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Cat Driver
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Duke Elegant
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Cat Driver
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Yeh, I flew a couple of Murphy Rebels and was impressed.
A friend is just finishing a Moose with the Russian Radial in it..that should be a real erection builder.
I got to work with a lot of Russians in Africa and did some stick time in the MI 8 helicopter........ jeeses those Russians build brutal machines they are fu..in bullet proof.
Cat
A friend is just finishing a Moose with the Russian Radial in it..that should be a real erection builder.
I got to work with a lot of Russians in Africa and did some stick time in the MI 8 helicopter........ jeeses those Russians build brutal machines they are fu..in bullet proof.
Cat
mar
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Russian sleds
Cat Driver: Those Russian sleds need to be bullet proof when they de-ice with vodka. Oh wait a minute, that was Alaska Airlines.
Anyway, there's probably not much de-icing going on in Africa...
NWT in Yellowknife, eh? I see the Air North guys in Fairbanks quite a bit. I think they come from Whitehorse--a fine town, I must say.
The only other YT community I've visited is Old Crow. We delivered a load of heating oil.
Thanks for everyone's comments. I enjoy expanding the discussion beyond Scope, PFT, Bankruptcies....and, you know, everything else.
I love to fly. I just live for it. And the only reason I'm still working when others are not is out of pure luck. And timing. And networking.
I've been fired and layed off more times than I'd like to think about.
TB--I have absolutely no idea how that engine analyzer works. I bet somebody like Avbug or Asquared can explain it.
All I know is what I was trained to do: Look for bad plugs and synch the props (it'll do that too).
Ever tried to synch four worn out props? Maddening...
About the fuel...I'm not aware of any changes to the engine to accomodate the lower octane.
Cat Driver: Those Russian sleds need to be bullet proof when they de-ice with vodka. Oh wait a minute, that was Alaska Airlines.
Anyway, there's probably not much de-icing going on in Africa...
NWT in Yellowknife, eh? I see the Air North guys in Fairbanks quite a bit. I think they come from Whitehorse--a fine town, I must say.
The only other YT community I've visited is Old Crow. We delivered a load of heating oil.
Thanks for everyone's comments. I enjoy expanding the discussion beyond Scope, PFT, Bankruptcies....and, you know, everything else.
I love to fly. I just live for it. And the only reason I'm still working when others are not is out of pure luck. And timing. And networking.
I've been fired and layed off more times than I'd like to think about.
TB--I have absolutely no idea how that engine analyzer works. I bet somebody like Avbug or Asquared can explain it.
All I know is what I was trained to do: Look for bad plugs and synch the props (it'll do that too).
Ever tried to synch four worn out props? Maddening...
About the fuel...I'm not aware of any changes to the engine to accomodate the lower octane.
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Big Duke Six
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Now we're talkin'
I'm a little late here, but thanks Mar! I very much appreciate the time you took to put me on board with you for awhile. Nice.
I had no idea you could monitor those engines that way! That does sound pretty advanced for its day. But d@mn, the part about the oil floors me. For being built for long-haul work, and at the usage rates you quoted, it sounds like 30 gallons per is not nearly enough. Can you add more to the engines inflight via a pump from a barrel or something? How do you manage and plan for that? Oh, wait, maybe you meant total burns, not per engine.
Glad to see we're pointed in the right direction again. Hey, you ever spend any time at the Bush Company or Chilcoot Charlie's? That's nearly 20 years ago for me, but I was wondering if they're still around. AF you know, spent a few weeks at Elmendorf once or twice.
I'm a little late here, but thanks Mar! I very much appreciate the time you took to put me on board with you for awhile. Nice.
I had no idea you could monitor those engines that way! That does sound pretty advanced for its day. But d@mn, the part about the oil floors me. For being built for long-haul work, and at the usage rates you quoted, it sounds like 30 gallons per is not nearly enough. Can you add more to the engines inflight via a pump from a barrel or something? How do you manage and plan for that? Oh, wait, maybe you meant total burns, not per engine.
Glad to see we're pointed in the right direction again. Hey, you ever spend any time at the Bush Company or Chilcoot Charlie's? That's nearly 20 years ago for me, but I was wondering if they're still around. AF you know, spent a few weeks at Elmendorf once or twice.
Wang Chung
Everybody have fun tonite
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That "day in the life" reminded me of when I flew unscheduled freight in piston Convairs....everything minus the FE!! It's a high workload cockpit at times! One of the most interesting parts for the non-flying pilot was to scan 20+ steam guages and also make callouts during the first part of the takeoff roll.
Mar - do you guys use high blower? Most heavy radial birds today have high blower disabled, I think. I guess I was lucky enough to use high blower for a few flights on one particular Convair that still had it.
Wang
Mar - do you guys use high blower? Most heavy radial birds today have high blower disabled, I think. I guess I was lucky enough to use high blower for a few flights on one particular Convair that still had it.
Wang
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Cat Driver
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On the fuel question.
In the fifties and sixties we used 115/145 and up until the eighties 100/130 however big radial engines are low compression engines and run quite well on 100LL.
For oil we use 120 weight in summer and 100 weight in winter ( and oil dilution on shut down in below freezing temps. ).
One thing big radials will not tolerate is turbine engine pilots due to the care needed in throttle and prop pitch control. A throttle monkey can ruin a set of engines in no time at all.
Nothing beats watching and hearing a big radial clink, clack spit and bang into life trailing smoke out of the exhaust pipes on start up.
The clacking noises are the counter weights being thrown into position as the RPM increases above idle...
Cat Driver:
In the fifties and sixties we used 115/145 and up until the eighties 100/130 however big radial engines are low compression engines and run quite well on 100LL.
For oil we use 120 weight in summer and 100 weight in winter ( and oil dilution on shut down in below freezing temps. ).
One thing big radials will not tolerate is turbine engine pilots due to the care needed in throttle and prop pitch control. A throttle monkey can ruin a set of engines in no time at all.
Nothing beats watching and hearing a big radial clink, clack spit and bang into life trailing smoke out of the exhaust pipes on start up.
The clacking noises are the counter weights being thrown into position as the RPM increases above idle...
Cat Driver:
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mar
Remember this one?
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Deactivated equipment
All right. Now I'm learning stuff about my own airplane.
I don't know where I picked up that 100LL wasn't as good for the engines. You know, there is so much folklore out there. But it make sense that a low compression engine would run fine on that.
Wang Chung--I can't imagine operating a DC6 without an FE but our GOM says one is required for every *revenue* flight. In other words we're permitted to ferry it without one.
And yeah, the high blowers are declutched.
So is the oil dilution...
...and the aux oil pump. Which answers Big Duke's question about running out of oil when you're crossing an ocean. There is a reserve oil tank with a pump. The FE can select any engine and direct oil via a switch in the cockpit. I think they would make a 50/50 mix of fuel and oil to keep it from congealing in flight--easier to pump. But I'm not sure as I said because we never use it.
And yes those oil burns I noted are *total*. One gallon per engine per hour = four gals per hour. But in reality some are less and some are more. One engine may go all day and never use any and then one of the others may be a real 'burner.'
Cat Driver, true statement about turbine pilots.
One of our pilots has a sticker on his locker: "Jets are for kids!"
It was a big transition for me coming from Metroliners where I would use a 3:1 descent plan and pretty much flight idle (above NTS) and then go to the Six where I use 6:1 and try to plan my descent so that I don't have to add power until I bring the RPMs up at the FAF. It's a game of management and patience for sure.
But it's like we always say, let's baby those engines now so that when we need them they'll be there for us. Oh baby, let me tell you, those Pratts'll put out more than 60" MP if you need it.
I pet them and talk real nice all day to them.
All right. Now I'm learning stuff about my own airplane.
I don't know where I picked up that 100LL wasn't as good for the engines. You know, there is so much folklore out there. But it make sense that a low compression engine would run fine on that.
Wang Chung--I can't imagine operating a DC6 without an FE but our GOM says one is required for every *revenue* flight. In other words we're permitted to ferry it without one.
And yeah, the high blowers are declutched.
So is the oil dilution...
...and the aux oil pump. Which answers Big Duke's question about running out of oil when you're crossing an ocean. There is a reserve oil tank with a pump. The FE can select any engine and direct oil via a switch in the cockpit. I think they would make a 50/50 mix of fuel and oil to keep it from congealing in flight--easier to pump. But I'm not sure as I said because we never use it.
And yes those oil burns I noted are *total*. One gallon per engine per hour = four gals per hour. But in reality some are less and some are more. One engine may go all day and never use any and then one of the others may be a real 'burner.'
Cat Driver, true statement about turbine pilots.
One of our pilots has a sticker on his locker: "Jets are for kids!"
It was a big transition for me coming from Metroliners where I would use a 3:1 descent plan and pretty much flight idle (above NTS) and then go to the Six where I use 6:1 and try to plan my descent so that I don't have to add power until I bring the RPMs up at the FAF. It's a game of management and patience for sure.
But it's like we always say, let's baby those engines now so that when we need them they'll be there for us. Oh baby, let me tell you, those Pratts'll put out more than 60" MP if you need it.
I pet them and talk real nice all day to them.
Birdstrike
Atlantic City
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
- Posts
- 13,334
Grind Me A Pound
"...Electrical: One GEN can handle the entire load. Three inverters. Engine instruments get power from two. The third is for emergencies when on BATT power..."
-----------------------------------------------------
Mar, are you referring to only one generator on-line being able to handle the entire load? Out of how many? Can they be reset in flight? Are they off the main elec bus or do they have their own? Fascinating story, thanks.
Ref your opening remarks, though, just get over it, it ain't gonna happen. Beechin about it actually seems to make it worse.
You probably ought to write a book about flying in Alaska.
"...Electrical: One GEN can handle the entire load. Three inverters. Engine instruments get power from two. The third is for emergencies when on BATT power..."
-----------------------------------------------------
Mar, are you referring to only one generator on-line being able to handle the entire load? Out of how many? Can they be reset in flight? Are they off the main elec bus or do they have their own? Fascinating story, thanks.
Ref your opening remarks, though, just get over it, it ain't gonna happen. Beechin about it actually seems to make it worse.
You probably ought to write a book about flying in Alaska.
A Squared
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 3,006
The ignition analyzer:
The Engines on the DC-6 have a low tension ignition system. the magnetos produce a *low* voltage imples (400 v or thereabouts) which is boosted at the cylinder head by a secondary coil. The ignition analyzer is an oscilliscope where the horizontal trace is driven by a timing generator on the accessory section of the engine. One sweep=2 revolutions of the encine The trace comes from the voltage in the primary ignition circuit. A rotary switch allows you to select one of 8 distributor circuits to display (2 distributors/ engine X 4 engines) In the most commonly used mode, the sweep is amplified horizontaly so that the pulse of a single spark plus is displayed, rather than all 18 pulses on hte same screen. A second rotary switch varies the timing of the sweep so that each spark plug can be selected. The synch mode displays the ignition pulses from one engine with the sweep timed to another engine, apparent motion of the ignition pulses indicated an rpm difference between the selected engines.
The engines are unmodified for running on 100LL. When the 108/135 and 115/145 fuel was available, CB-17 power settings were used, this allowed up to 62" MAP with water/meth injection. WIth 100LL fuel the CB-16 power settings are used. The CB-16 power settings were originally established for 100/130 fuel which is no longer available. There is no physical difference between a CB-16 engine and a CB-17 engine.
Oil: there is 26 gallon Aux oil tank which is used to replenish the engine oil tanks in flight via an electric pump.
High Blower ... At my company (not the same company as mar) the high blowers are not used, we use low blower exclusively.
The Engines on the DC-6 have a low tension ignition system. the magnetos produce a *low* voltage imples (400 v or thereabouts) which is boosted at the cylinder head by a secondary coil. The ignition analyzer is an oscilliscope where the horizontal trace is driven by a timing generator on the accessory section of the engine. One sweep=2 revolutions of the encine The trace comes from the voltage in the primary ignition circuit. A rotary switch allows you to select one of 8 distributor circuits to display (2 distributors/ engine X 4 engines) In the most commonly used mode, the sweep is amplified horizontaly so that the pulse of a single spark plus is displayed, rather than all 18 pulses on hte same screen. A second rotary switch varies the timing of the sweep so that each spark plug can be selected. The synch mode displays the ignition pulses from one engine with the sweep timed to another engine, apparent motion of the ignition pulses indicated an rpm difference between the selected engines.
The engines are unmodified for running on 100LL. When the 108/135 and 115/145 fuel was available, CB-17 power settings were used, this allowed up to 62" MAP with water/meth injection. WIth 100LL fuel the CB-16 power settings are used. The CB-16 power settings were originally established for 100/130 fuel which is no longer available. There is no physical difference between a CB-16 engine and a CB-17 engine.
Oil: there is 26 gallon Aux oil tank which is used to replenish the engine oil tanks in flight via an electric pump.
High Blower ... At my company (not the same company as mar) the high blowers are not used, we use low blower exclusively.
mar
Remember this one?
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 1,929
I told ya Asquared would know.
AA has a much better head for the finer aspects of flying.
I just like to watch the scenary go by.
Birdstrike--I'm over it believe me but I must admit I cannot let certain comments pass unanswered. It's the whole silence equals consent thing.
If everyone would just remember why we come to this website in the first place it would be much more productive than sifting through reams of rhetoric.
I'm also just as guilty as the next person.
One GEN out of four can handle the entire load. Typical load during flight might be 200amps. One GEN can handle 300.
Peace.
AA has a much better head for the finer aspects of flying.
I just like to watch the scenary go by.
Birdstrike--I'm over it believe me but I must admit I cannot let certain comments pass unanswered. It's the whole silence equals consent thing.
If everyone would just remember why we come to this website in the first place it would be much more productive than sifting through reams of rhetoric.
I'm also just as guilty as the next person.
One GEN out of four can handle the entire load. Typical load during flight might be 200amps. One GEN can handle 300.
Peace.
Timebuilder
Entrepreneur
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 4,625
A Squared
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 3,006
Timebuilder said:
yep, you got it. the wave forms can give an incredible amount of information about what is going on with the engine. In addition to showing faults in the ignition system (shorts, open circuits, Breaker point malfunction, spark plug fouling, etc) you can also detect non ignition problems. For example, a cylinder with low compression; because the dielectric value between the plug electrodes is lower when the compression is low, it affects the waveform all the way back upstream in the primary curcuit. Ignition analyzer interpretation is one of those black arts, soon to be a lost art.
59.5" MAP, the max CB-16 power setting. That is obtainable up to about 3000 ft. The high blower was never intended to achieve a higher max MAP, but rather to enable cruise or climb manifold bressure at high altitudes. It's the high altitude performance which is lost with the high blower setting rather than max boost. In fact, because of compressive heating of the intake air, the max MAP in high blow was *less* than the max MAP in low blow.
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