i should've filed a NASA form!

[jsoceanlord]

OK here goes;;

a couple weeks ago my boss said that 'FAA inspector personnel' were concerned that I flew an islander that was a part 91 plane on a 135 flight. I asked my boss if I should file a NASA ASRS form and he said i had nothing to worry about because we weren't paid for the flight (so it was a 91 flight. we had urgent medical supplies). I agreed and didn't file the form.

Now i get a registered letter investigating my jan 3 flight. what's worse is i applied for a job that only allows 2 faa viloations in 5 years - so i'm ordering a stack of blank forms

what happened is i changed planes after talking to my D.O. on the phone at 5am and telling him i'd prefer the other (part 91) plane because it had more fuel

thanks for any insights

 

[tarp]

Let's see - boss said he wasn't paid (charity flight for medical supplies).

You didn't hand in a time card (or mistakenly handed in a time card that you are now correcting) so that you donated your time to fly this charitable mission.

And you got a letter from the hospital thanking you for bringing them these urgent supplies. So go ahead and tell the FAA just what you did.

Hint, hint, hint.

 

[jsoceanlord]

the flight was for our regular customer, the post office. i don't know if that's any different than say a charter customer from off the street.

here's the written statement i sent the faa;

"at 5 am on jan 3 i phoned my d.o. and said that there was a marginal amount of fuel in my 3 engine plane. i said i was unwilling to depart unless i new for sure that fuel was available at my destination. my d.o. recommended that i switch to our twin engine plane (which i'd flown a lot). my d.o. said that the flight would be under far 91, not 135, and that we wouldn't be financially compensated. medical supplies required airlift."

my boss (and d.o.) thinks a short suspension for me is better than a hefty fine for him, so it's kinda an awkward situation.

 

[flydog]

Dude youre a complete moron. From the crap you have posted here since you have been a member its obvious you have no business being around airplanes let alone fly one with passengers. Plenty of guys around that live by the rules that dont have a flying job.

Your story sounds like BS anyway. I find it hard to believe that it was easier to preflight and load up another plane than to call a fuel truck and toss more fuel in the one you were in.

Your a hack. Mail your ticket back to the FAA and become a cab driver

 

[LearLove]

buddy if your telling the truth man I just don't know, can you say dumb move. You should have seen it comming.

I had a 135 boss tell me to take a flight when the departure was below T.O mins (no CL lighting) because and quote "the pax aren't paying for the takeoff just the flight portion" and he was serious. I told him I'd call him back when the vis increased but if he wanted to press the iussue i'd call our POI and get clairfication.

Heres another: Same boss a year earlier told another capt to take a cargo and one pax on a flight 135 with no cargo net and the cargo was in the pax cabin. He said like the same thing "we are getting paid to fly the pax, I'm not charging for the cargo" The guy was like sure and left the cargo (a P-51 radiator) on the ramp.

Back to you, Again if your telling the truth:

1. crawl to the feds w/ a good lawyer
2. gat a large baseball bat and crush your bosses skull
3. go to home depot, get one of thoes Saws Alls power tools and cut the spars on his aircraft
4. hit the road

 

[dmspilot00]

And how would have filling out a NASA form helped? I'm by no means an expert but the rules go that the FAA can't use information it derived from a NASA form to violate someone. If they already know about an event from another source then it doesn't do any good. Filing the report doesn't make you invincible; if it did then every pilot would have them and there would never be any violations, ever.

 

[cvsfly]

And how would have filling out a NASA form helped? I'm by no means an expert but the rules go that the FAA can't use information it derived from a NASA form to violate someone. If they already know about an event from another source then it doesn't do any good. Filing the report doesn't make you invincible; if it did then every pilot would have them and there would never be any violations, ever.

Exactly. This form is often referred to as "get of jail free card". It is not. It just can't be used to self-incriminate in an effort to let pilots report on info that can be used in safety related issues. It will not save your butt in an enforcement action where you willfully or by shear stupidity or lack of knowledge violated the regs.

 

[Bluto]

No, not exactly...
DMSpilot00,
Actually, a NASA form can give you some protection from FAA violations. Otherwise, why would anyone ever file one? There are limits of course. Many pilots do carry them and file them regularly.

paraphrased from AC00-46D:

c. The filing of a report with NASA concerning an incident or occurrence involving a violation of the FAR is considered by FAA to be indicative of a constructive attitude.
Such an attitude will tend to prevent future violations. Accordingly, although a finding of violation may be made, neither a civil penalty nor certificate suspension will be imposed if:
(1) the violation was inadvertent and not deliberate;.
(2) the violation did not involve a criminal offense, or accident, or action...which discloses a lack of qualification or competency, which is wholly excluded from this policy;
(3) the person has not been found in any prior FAA enforcement action to have committed a violation...for a period of 5 years
prior to the date of occurrence; and
(4) the person proves that, within 10 days after the violation, he or she completed and submitted an ASRS form

NASA ASRS forms are something all pilots should be familiar with. If interested, download a copy of AC00-46D from the FAA website. It seems to me that the original poster violated the regs intentionally and only decided it was a bad idea afterwards. In this case, an ASRS form wouldn't do any good.

 

[MetroSheriff]

here's the written statement i sent the faa;

"at 5 am on jan 3 i phoned my d.o. and said that there was a marginal amount of fuel in my 3 engine plane. i said i was unwilling to depart unless i new for sure that fuel was available at my destination. my d.o. recommended that i switch to our twin engine plane (which i'd flown a lot). my d.o. said that the flight would be under far 91, not 135, and that we wouldn't be financially compensated. medical supplies required airlift."

The important question here is:

Did you use capitalization in the letter you sent to the FAA???

 

[jetdriven]

you're first mistake was letting your boss push you into flying an aircraft under 135 when it wasnt legal to do so. your second mistake was sending the FAA a letter describing what you did. you just gave him enough information to violate you.

I would clam up and get a lawyer, a REAL AVIATION LAWYER, fast, and try to stop the damage from getting worse.

Do not EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANGE engage with anyone from the FAA on the phone, in person, or by mail.

this goes for all of you. I have had 4 investigations but no violations because of a lawyer, nothing else.

 

[Traumahawk]

Woulda talked to a lawyer before sending a letter to the FAA.
Regardless, talk with one now.
--T-hawk

 

[flywithastick]

You mailed a letter to the FAA? Bummer. Hindsight's 20/20, but you have to remember those folks are not in the business of giving breaks.

"Knock, knock... we're here to "help"!"
http://www.gurusinc.com/aa/images/elianins1.jpg

 

[bobbysamd]

Ulp!

Hindsight is always 20/20, although it should be ingrained in all of us to file a NASA report(s) after even the slightest perceived impropriety. You do get some protections, as Bluto documented above.

I, personally, would never take management's advice about dealing with these situations. When push comes to shove, management will cover its a$$ and not yours. To management, pilots are expendable.

TODAY, speak with a lawyer. I haven't the slightest if there are any aviation lawyers in the islands. You can call AOPA for advice if you are a member.

Good luck - you may need it.

 

[Aeronca]

I'm just curious. How did the FAA find out about the flight?

Good luck.

 

[jsoceanlord]

our loader of 5 years was having a dispute over pay with my boss and he told - the loaders gone.

i'm with that ATR pilot awhile back who said he's geting out of the business of too much bs for too little pay.

there's 3 cargo sections in my trislander - next thing is i'll have to come up with exact weight of each package and keep it perfectly within the limits of that section. i just read somwhere that half the time it's ok to tell ATC you have traffic in sight when maybe you're not sure, etc

whoever called me a moron is lame. i'm a safety champion

am i the most hated poaster on the board or what? and with the lowest star ratings?

 

[flywithastick]

whoever called me a moron is lame. i'm a safety champion

am i the most hated poaster on the board or what? and with the lowest star ratings? [/B]

Another tip... sober up before climbing back into the cockpit.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by jsoceanlord
i'm a safety champion

No, you're not. Almost everything you've posted on this board indicates that you're a careless pilot working for a slipshod, dirt-bag Part 135 outfit. By your own admission, you end up in a life-threatening situation in the air almost once a month. You violate FAR's regularly. You've been caught with drugs.

Now if the things you post here are lies or wild exaggerations, then that's another story altogether. But if you're being straight with us, you have no business in the cockpit of an airplane...Part 91, 135, or otherwise.

And for the love of god, would you just tell us whether or not you have a <SHIFT> key on your computer? We'd really like to know!

 

[UPS Capt]

there's 3 cargo sections in my trislander - next thing is i'll have to come up with exact weight of each package and keep it perfectly within the limits of that section

Well, Yea.....it's called a weight and balance computation. It's kinda required or did you sleep through that phase of private pilot 101?

Do yourself a favor and find a different line of work before you become a winner of the next Darwin award.

 

[350DRIVER]

There is absolutely no way in he!! this story is for real. I could never imagine in a million years that even the most nieve and off the wall pilot would ever be capable of doing such things . This has flame bait written A L L over it, nothing more and nothing less... Obviously >>if Mr. jsoceanlord did in fact do these things I am sure the feds would have not only grounded him but his employer as well> a very long time ago. (food 4 thought) Some of these posts are leaning on the verge on insanity.

There is a personality profile that seems to run rapid and along the same lines in each and every one of these so-called "stories" that is posted here. In the highly unlikelihood that this is "true" then may God Bless you and give you the wisdom to run away from this operator as fast as you can. Common sense can not only save your life in this industry but also the many innocent lives that are under those wings of your airplane.

Sounds like a weak attempt at sarcasm as well. My vote is definitely stating that this is f l a m e .

3 5 0

 

[flydog]

I was wondering about that missing <shift> key myself

I think JSOceanlord is real.

If you ever stop off in St Thomas, or Puerto Rico and see these operations running these Trislanders, C-402s, etc across the caribbean youll see what I mean.

The mook that did the Vmc demo while flying Alliyah last year was a prime example. Crackhead reject falsifies logbook to fly 135 VFR in a shoddily maintained wreck of an airplane.