I say "no," he says "yes." Who's right?

[Flying Illini]

This is a new situation for me and the thought never occurred to me. I recently returned from SimuFlite Dallas with my DA-10 type rating. I don't have an ATP license. I recently flew with a captain who says that I can log PIC when it's my leg and I'm flying (part 91). I contend that I can't. Neither of us had access to the FAR's on this trip so we couldn't resolve the issue. Now that I'm home I've had a chance to read 61.51 (e) and it seems to support my answer of "no-way jose."
Thoughts?

 

[igneousy2]

why not?


A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log PIC time only for that flight time during which that person -- is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated;

61.51 (e)(1)

What's the issue?

 

[English]

You only need the ATP when acting as PIC in a turbojet under part 135. If you are part 91, you are good to go.

 

[Flying Illini]

That part makes sense, maybe I'm not thinking straight today (very possible!) but 61.51 (e) (iii) is what is causing my confusion.

 

[A Squared]

91.51 (e) i, ii, and iii are seperated by "or" not "and" read it that way and see what it means to you then.


You are legal to log PIC time when you are flying, but be aware that many airlines do not recognize this as PIC time. Personally I can't imagine logging PIC time when I am not actually the PIC, but that's just me.

 

[pilotyip]

TJ 135 PIC OK with Comm Ticket

You can also log PIC and sign as Capt under 135 with Comm and proper type rating. They have been doing it in the on-demand business for years. I do not have the regs in front of me but I do not think you need an ATP in 135 until you are scheduled or hhave 10 or more pax, any comments. This does not include "Eligible on-demand" which requires an ATP under 135.

 

[transpac]

You can also log PIC and sign as Capt under 135 with Comm and proper type rating. They have been doing it in the on-demand business for years. I do not have the regs in front of me but I do not think you need an ATP in 135 until you are scheduled or hhave 10 or more pax, any comments. This does not include "Eligible on-demand" which requires an ATP under 135.

FAR 135.243: 135 Cargo in a jet requires at least a Commercial. 135 pax in a jet requires an ATP whether or not it's scheduled and whether or not it's 10 or more pax.

 

[JetBlast2000]

Sound to me like he's just asking about part 91. I think your getting a little confused between LOGGING PIC and ACTING AS PIC. Two different def's. The short answer is you CAN LOG PIC without ACTING as PIC.

 

[pilotyip]

I stand corrected

We don't deal in 135 pax, so I was not sure, Transpac is correct all pax TJ must have an ATP. However non-TJ do not need a ATP if they carry less than 10 pax. clear as mud right?

 

[profile]

Just remember that if you do choose to log it as PIC (which is legal) you may be setting yourself up for some trouble at an airline interview down the road. Aside from FAA, everyone else defines PIC as "command time" and they don't want to see anything else in your book in that column!