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I really need some advice.

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If you want to succeed in aviation, you will. You certainly can suceed without college.

However, without additional skills and/or education you are screwed if you decide to switch careers or if you lose your medical.

Right now, aviation sucks. Get the degree in something you like and then pursue the flying. Then you can make the call.
 
Don't know how far along you are in your current degree program, but getting "a degree" is, in my opinion, a nebulous concept until you answer a few questions first. What kind of degree are we talking about? What school? Do they have a serious job placement program for their alumni, and are employers regularly coming to them to recruit new talent? (That's a big one.) Are you actually acquiring knowledge you're going to be able to use in the real world (if not, are you at least buying a credential that you know you can cash in for a significant return when you finish)?

I think these days any worthwhile formal education must equip you with some sort of specialized talent, knowledge, title, etc. We're all "well-rounded" enough in this age of information overload. Develop a rare level of expertise in something that will always be in demand. It could be in aeronautics, but an ATP certificate is not going to cut it (and it's hard enough just to get to that point). Just looking at the realistic return on your investment that you can expect for your certificates and ratings, along with a four year degree, you could do better. On the other hand, someone with enough passion for aviation (or anything else) to really distinguish himself in his field beyond the status quo will most likely succeed. It'll just take a lot more time, money, and effort to do it in aviation.

I'm working on it myself, and I honestly don't know if it's worth it or not. In just about any other field, I'd be soooo much further along by now.
 
Uh say again bro...

On this thread, you asked

PilotOnTheRise said:
I really need some advice from you guys, if you don't mind.

A college degree is VERY important, and I plan to get one. I am currently attending college, and working toward that. However, having your ratings, and building flight time is VERY important as well, if you want to become a pilot. It is hard, however, to do both at the same time. Being a full-time college student, trying to study for your college classes, and study for and earn your ratings at the same time is not easy. That is unless you are getting an aviation degree, where the flying is part of the curriculum, which I am not.

With that said;

Seniority is very important when it comes to the airlines. Obviously the sooner you can get in, the better. I've seen many pilots recommend first getting your flight ratings out of the way, and then getting a job instructing, and eventually at a regional, and then begin working on your degree, as you end up having time. Obviously you will be flying for a regional for plenty of years to afford you the time to complete a degree before moving on to the majors, where the degree is more important.

Should I try to focus on getting my ratings done first, begin instructing, and then try to finish my degree, then try to get on with a regional? Should I get my ratings done first, begin instructing, try to get on with a regional, and then try to finish my degree part-time? Or, should I finish my degree, and then work on my flight ratings, etc.? Each involves getting a degree, but the latter involves getting into the airlines much later on, possibly years, which when it comes to being a pilot, can be a big deal as far as seniority and upgrades, etc., are concerned.

Thanks in advance for the advice!!

However, on another thread, full of wisdom and insight, you offered to the forum, in response to "the state of the industry" (seen from your dorm room)

PilotOnTheRise said:
That is a little extreme, don't you think? Is it really that bad? Even if you stay with a regional for your career, you can make a decent living, especially once you upgrade. I think some of you allow the current state of the industry to fog your thinking so much, that you cannot focus on anything but the bad. There is too much of a 'dooms-day' like attitude about the industry. I would just be thankful you have a job period, because there are plenty of people, even outside of aviation, who do not right now. Things can always be better, and things could always be worse; regardless of how good or bad things are.

Please define "decent living" and also please enlighten us how you (or we) should "just be thankful to have a job, period"

I suppose you support Pay For Your Job also? I suppose a B777 Captain should make $40,000 a year, as he has a "dream job" anyway and he should be lucky "just to have a job"
 
I'm willing to take the gamble to chase a dream. In the mean time, I am getting a degree from a good school so that if I end up as some of you have, furloughed, I do have a backup.[/quote]

Dude, that's the way to look at it. Don't listen to the grumps. You have to ask yourself this: How passioniate about it are you? If it's just a job with "prestige" and hot flgiht attendants that you're looking for - don't bother. If you are chasing a childhood dream that runs in your veins like blood - do it. Be prepared for a lot more sacrifice along the way. It takes a lot out of you. But be smart and get the degree with another skill. That will be invaluable. Becuause any pilot never knows when the furlough reaper comes calling. Or you lose a medical or any other darn thing. you'll have a one HUGE less headache to worry about.
 
GogglesPisano said:
Get a degree first. And nothing having anything remotely to do with aviation -- unless it's aeronautical enginering.

NOOOOOO...BAD advice. The market for aero engineers is dismal. The working conditions are horrible and the job..well, basically SUCKS. Those who do get a job have the same attitude as the people in this indsutry with SJS. This whole 'if I chug it two more years I won't be junior anymore...just hold on one more year".... and they say that all the way to their layoff. In many respects the aero engineering market is very similar to the airlines: it requires mobility, because it's not a question of "would you be laid off?" rather it's a question of "when? and where do I go next?". If ya really want a marketable engineering degree go get an industrial engineering degree, and there you can work in the first thing that falls on your lap. After all, you aren't getting it because it's your passion, right?

Besides, the point is moot anyways, for somebody who is trying to get a degree in "something else" to mitigate the fact that their one passion in life has negative returns on investment (ain't life a b!tch) aero engineering is about the worst pursuit one could devise...trust me I know :D get a nursing degree and call it a day.

To be honest, I just don't buy the whole "backup career" argument altogether. To me that's just hair-splitting, I know plenty of people who got sick of the corporate gig, hell look at aviation and all the middle 30's career changers and the [career-changer]-backchangers! LOL apparently the backup value of that degree wasn't THAT great if it got you jumping industries like it's cinco de mayo.

To address the argument somebody made previously about the value of the name of the univeristy as it relates to your job prospects, gimme a freggin' break. That's an irresponsible generalization. In 7 years I have learned a lot from academia, being in both sides of the classroom, and I can tell you that rankings is what makes them money. It's not that the name of the college doesn't matter, it matters to an extent, but it's the scope in which it gets marketed. For every dozen lambs that get a degree from University X there is only one that will be able to capitalize on their degree, the rest are f$cked. Yet the university will continue to push the agenda that their name gets you a job, and my friend that is just not accurate. Basically, I would discourage anyone from EVER pursuing a degree as an out-of-state student, the name of the university IS NOT WORTH the out-of-state tuiton and will not provide you with positive returns-on-investment. If you can do it in-state, go to town! if not, stop looking at that d%mn US News and World Report like it's the Bible and get real. For any major with high job placement, you can always do it on the cheap by going in-state, for those without high job placement, the answer is even more obvious, the name will NOT mitigate that.

Now, everything depends on what major we're talking about, but to give you a concise example, at Purdue, the Aero Engineering Department has around 400+ students on average, with about 200 graduate students (yours truly included). They'll be lucky if 10% of the graduating class in a particular academic year attains employment in jobs that pertain to aero engineering. You know what happens to the rest? Work in unrelated fields.....working in generic engineering and get depressed because they worked 10 times as hard to get the same job his buddy in civil engineering is doing. Most graviate to computer jobs (after all, that is ALL aero engineering is these days, freggin MATLAB coding, might as well call it computer science) and then fall out of the market altogether, some might even be thinking of trying for the aviation industry, after all many of us got into this field because we wanted to fly planes but kept getting told "have a backup" LOL

I don't have a desire to go for airline work, as my aviation expectations lie in the military and in academia, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but honestly, going to Purdue through their flight program doesn't seem too bad considering my previous statement about "backup careers". I wouldn't do it, it's just too much money for the same ratings I was able to obtain Part 61, but some of the CFI's from the "rich" side of the fence here in LAF are getting on with regionals with very low time (I was quoted 525TT 25multi and the kid was serious) just because they got some bridge thing going with Purdue. Additionally they get dibs on good CFI jobs, while I'm not getting the time of day and have to scrap for local FBO's and no benefits. So aside from the money issue, in which I agree with the people in here, might as well bite the bullet, if nothing seems to provide you with the satisfaction that flying does.
 
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Sounds to me like he already made his decisions -- and all of the advice we gave him was pretty much dismissed as us old "grumps" stomping on his dream.

Sorry pal. We ALL had aviation "running through our veins".

We ALL wanted to be pilots since we were little kids and couldn't imagine doing anything else.

Do you think it's EASY for us to recommend an alternate career path for you? Heck no!!

You asked us for our opinion. Based on 10 (almost 11) years in this profession I gave you mine!

If you didn't want to listen to the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.
 
Sorry for sidetracking the thread, I agree with bender on that one. I ya ask for an opinion then don't fight it just because you don't like it.
 
I send him a PM; he knows what he has to do to succeed.
 
Oh super YIP. Now we can't even see what you wrote and chime in if we happen to disagree with the wisdom you shared with young Skywalker.

"Oh sure, you COULD go to a fancy Galactic University... or you could take the quick easy path. Just give in to the anger and come on over here to the Dark Side. We've got the cure for SJS my young apprentice... "
 
The force will be with him and he shall prevail. He needs to be protected from the non truths
 
My story: I recieved my Associate degree from a reputable Community College (Oxymoron?). I started on my Bachelor's degree when I was hired at a good time building job. One job led to another and now I'm at a very reputable regional airline (Another Oxymoron?) after many small jobs and flying 135 freight. I love my job and my life, and always had aviation in my blood since I was three. I am a little disturbed though because I have my degree still in the back of my mind. I am now forced into getting a degree online because of the schedule I carry, and this severely limits what I get my degree in. As much as it hurts to admit it, I would say get your degree first if you plan on getting one. When you start building flight time, jobs will come at you left and right quickly, then there is no turning back. One more thing. Don't listen to the people on here who tell you to get out of aviation and find another profession. Aviation has always been a single man's game. True aviators are those who dream and live that dream; we are true romanticists. We love what we do and will die trying to do that. As for the others in this profession, you will find that they are confused. They don't really know what they want. They get blinded by the outside world. They want a house and toys and are willing to trade their love for the worldly things. If you want a house and toys and the traditional "American dream," then maybe you should take a desk job and fly on the weekends. If you truely want to live, breathe, and bleed aviation, live a simple life and enjoy your career in the good times and the bad. Good luck to you!
 
college

For jesus sake go to college. Do a few 2 story funnels off a frat house balcony and nail some hottie 19 year olds. The experiences you gain in college are worth more than getting on a fews years earlier at some lame regional airline. If you get seriously motivated you can go to any state school and rack up your ratings while you go during summer/winter breaks if you can't fly during your undergrad. Don't get some lame online degree and live at you parents house like some people do, they never got to fool 2 freshman into having a BJ contest and letting you be the judge.
 
Or --->

To really prepare you for life and aviation I recommend a college with absolutely zero to very few members of the opposite sex. In addition, to really prepare you for life, get a degree in Aviation Management or similar animal, which is not recognized outside of the airline industry. FYI- Major airline execs are all Harvard/Wharton/etc MBAs, not Riddle grads.

That way, you can graduate at age 22 or 23, and enter the world as a young adult, with your Aviation Management degree in hand, and focus on going on your first date in your life.

You could go to a major state school full of hot bunnies and major in Business or Finance or even History but that would be too normal.
 

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