I really need some advice.

[hindsight2020]

Get a degree first. And nothing having anything remotely to do with aviation -- unless it's aeronautical enginering.

NOOOOOO...BAD advice. The market for aero engineers is dismal. The working conditions are horrible and the job..well, basically SUCKS. Those who do get a job have the same attitude as the people in this indsutry with SJS. This whole 'if I chug it two more years I won't be junior anymore...just hold on one more year".... and they say that all the way to their layoff. In many respects the aero engineering market is very similar to the airlines: it requires mobility, because it's not a question of "would you be laid off?" rather it's a question of "when? and where do I go next?". If ya really want a marketable engineering degree go get an industrial engineering degree, and there you can work in the first thing that falls on your lap. After all, you aren't getting it because it's your passion, right?

Besides, the point is moot anyways, for somebody who is trying to get a degree in "something else" to mitigate the fact that their one passion in life has negative returns on investment (ain't life a b!tch) aero engineering is about the worst pursuit one could devise...trust me I know get a nursing degree and call it a day.

To be honest, I just don't buy the whole "backup career" argument altogether. To me that's just hair-splitting, I know plenty of people who got sick of the corporate gig, hell look at aviation and all the middle 30's career changers and the [career-changer]-backchangers! LOL apparently the backup value of that degree wasn't THAT great if it got you jumping industries like it's cinco de mayo.

To address the argument somebody made previously about the value of the name of the univeristy as it relates to your job prospects, gimme a freggin' break. That's an irresponsible generalization. In 7 years I have learned a lot from academia, being in both sides of the classroom, and I can tell you that rankings is what makes them money. It's not that the name of the college doesn't matter, it matters to an extent, but it's the scope in which it gets marketed. For every dozen lambs that get a degree from University X there is only one that will be able to capitalize on their degree, the rest are f$cked. Yet the university will continue to push the agenda that their name gets you a job, and my friend that is just not accurate. Basically, I would discourage anyone from EVER pursuing a degree as an out-of-state student, the name of the university IS NOT WORTH the out-of-state tuiton and will not provide you with positive returns-on-investment. If you can do it in-state, go to town! if not, stop looking at that d%mn US News and World Report like it's the Bible and get real. For any major with high job placement, you can always do it on the cheap by going in-state, for those without high job placement, the answer is even more obvious, the name will NOT mitigate that.

Now, everything depends on what major we're talking about, but to give you a concise example, at Purdue, the Aero Engineering Department has around 400+ students on average, with about 200 graduate students (yours truly included). They'll be lucky if 10% of the graduating class in a particular academic year attains employment in jobs that pertain to aero engineering. You know what happens to the rest? Work in unrelated fields.....working in generic engineering and get depressed because they worked 10 times as hard to get the same job his buddy in civil engineering is doing. Most graviate to computer jobs (after all, that is ALL aero engineering is these days, freggin MATLAB coding, might as well call it computer science) and then fall out of the market altogether, some might even be thinking of trying for the aviation industry, after all many of us got into this field because we wanted to fly planes but kept getting told "have a backup" LOL

I don't have a desire to go for airline work, as my aviation expectations lie in the military and in academia, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but honestly, going to Purdue through their flight program doesn't seem too bad considering my previous statement about "backup careers". I wouldn't do it, it's just too much money for the same ratings I was able to obtain Part 61, but some of the CFI's from the "rich" side of the fence here in LAF are getting on with regionals with very low time (I was quoted 525TT 25multi and the kid was serious) just because they got some bridge thing going with Purdue. Additionally they get dibs on good CFI jobs, while I'm not getting the time of day and have to scrap for local FBO's and no benefits. So aside from the money issue, in which I agree with the people in here, might as well bite the bullet, if nothing seems to provide you with the satisfaction that flying does.

 

[airchristyle]

well said hindsight

 

[BenderGonzales]

Sounds to me like he already made his decisions -- and all of the advice we gave him was pretty much dismissed as us old "grumps" stomping on his dream.

Sorry pal. We ALL had aviation "running through our veins".

We ALL wanted to be pilots since we were little kids and couldn't imagine doing anything else.

Do you think it's EASY for us to recommend an alternate career path for you? Heck no!!

You asked us for our opinion. Based on 10 (almost 11) years in this profession I gave you mine!

If you didn't want to listen to the answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.

 

[hindsight2020]

Sorry for sidetracking the thread, I agree with bender on that one. I ya ask for an opinion then don't fight it just because you don't like it.

 

[pilotyip]

I send him a PM; he knows what he has to do to succeed.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Oh super YIP. Now we can't even see what you wrote and chime in if we happen to disagree with the wisdom you shared with young Skywalker.

"Oh sure, you COULD go to a fancy Galactic University... or you could take the quick easy path. Just give in to the anger and come on over here to the Dark Side. We've got the cure for SJS my young apprentice... "

 

[pilotyip]

The force will be with him and he shall prevail. He needs to be protected from the non truths

 

[Captain Morgan]

My story: I recieved my Associate degree from a reputable Community College (Oxymoron?). I started on my Bachelor's degree when I was hired at a good time building job. One job led to another and now I'm at a very reputable regional airline (Another Oxymoron?) after many small jobs and flying 135 freight. I love my job and my life, and always had aviation in my blood since I was three. I am a little disturbed though because I have my degree still in the back of my mind. I am now forced into getting a degree online because of the schedule I carry, and this severely limits what I get my degree in. As much as it hurts to admit it, I would say get your degree first if you plan on getting one. When you start building flight time, jobs will come at you left and right quickly, then there is no turning back. One more thing. Don't listen to the people on here who tell you to get out of aviation and find another profession. Aviation has always been a single man's game. True aviators are those who dream and live that dream; we are true romanticists. We love what we do and will die trying to do that. As for the others in this profession, you will find that they are confused. They don't really know what they want. They get blinded by the outside world. They want a house and toys and are willing to trade their love for the worldly things. If you want a house and toys and the traditional "American dream," then maybe you should take a desk job and fly on the weekends. If you truely want to live, breathe, and bleed aviation, live a simple life and enjoy your career in the good times and the bad. Good luck to you!

 

[BeechCowboy48]

college

For jesus sake go to college. Do a few 2 story funnels off a frat house balcony and nail some hottie 19 year olds. The experiences you gain in college are worth more than getting on a fews years earlier at some lame regional airline. If you get seriously motivated you can go to any state school and rack up your ratings while you go during summer/winter breaks if you can't fly during your undergrad. Don't get some lame online degree and live at you parents house like some people do, they never got to fool 2 freshman into having a BJ contest and letting you be the judge.

 

[satpak77]

Or --->

To really prepare you for life and aviation I recommend a college with absolutely zero to very few members of the opposite sex. In addition, to really prepare you for life, get a degree in Aviation Management or similar animal, which is not recognized outside of the airline industry. FYI- Major airline execs are all Harvard/Wharton/etc MBAs, not Riddle grads.

That way, you can graduate at age 22 or 23, and enter the world as a young adult, with your Aviation Management degree in hand, and focus on going on your first date in your life.

You could go to a major state school full of hot bunnies and major in Business or Finance or even History but that would be too normal.

 

[BenderGonzales]

If I could add a little something to what SatPak said:

IF you have a college nickname such as "Maverick" or "Goose", you may want to lose it prior to graduation.

Failure to do so is likely to delay that first-date by several years. May also cause potential employers to laugh at you after you leave the room.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I'm so sick of these "party like I'm in the Animal House movie" dorks. Look, aspiring to be pilot person, just get your kicks when you're in high school. At least there you are a minor and you can get away with alot more. There is nothing more pathetic that trying to bang an 18 or 19 year old when you are a Junior or Senior in college. You should be MILF hunting in college... Again, chase young tail in high school and save your friend's mom for later!

 

[satpak77]

I'm so sick of these "party like I'm in the Animal House movie" dorks. Look, aspiring to be pilot person, just get your kicks when you're in high school. At least there you are a minor and you can get away with alot more. There is nothing more pathetic that trying to bang an 18 or 19 year old when you are a Junior or Senior in college. You should be MILF hunting in college... Again, chase young tail in high school and save your friend's mom for later!

uh, you are obviously on a different program than I was my senior year

must be really pathetic now, 35 year old pilot trying to bang 19 year olds

 

[RS6]

Should I try to focus on getting my ratings done first, begin instructing, and then try to finish my degree

A college degree will come in much more handy than a seniority number while you're on furlough.

'Nuf said!

 

[crashpad]

Well said.

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

The only response I made to this thread, after my original question was:

I understand that many say not to major in aviation. Currently, I am not majoring in aviation.

On the other hand, I've heard people say that a degree is a degree, and it usually doesn't matter what it is in. More than what it is in, it is used to show a possible employer that you can move from one level to another, i.e., high school to college, and work for and obtain a goal over an extended amount of time.

If you have a degree in aviation management, for example, although it may be focused on aviation, it is still a business degree. Does it afford absolutely NO possibility of employment outside of the industry? It would seem to me that it would, the same as someone with a regular business degree can get a job within the aviation industry. Maybe I'm wrong though..?

I don't understand where any of you are seeing that I am "fighting" with your opinions. I am reading them all, and taking them in. In my original question, I stated three scenarios to take, all of which involved getting a degree, and all of which involved flying. Each, however, was a different way of how to obtain them. All I was looking for were what you all did, and opinions on which is typically the best way. I never mentioned anything about NOT getting a degree, nor fought anybodies opinions.

I thank all of you who actually answered my questions, and did not attack me as if I did something wrong. I am tired of being treated like I did something wrong because I aspire to be a pilot, am asking questions, and am positive, and optimistic about the industry. It seems many of you cannot stand to see someone like that, as I've seen others treated the same way here. Many of you seem to make the assumption that people like myself, who are young aspiring pilots are the reason the airline industry is so bad right now. For some, that may be true, but not for me! I think the horrible attitudes some people have, however, plays a part in the problems with the industry. I don't need 5,000 hours or to have countless experience inside the industry to see that, as it applies to life in general. You either focus on the bad, and nothing more, and thus things become worse, or you try to take the good and bad, and make of it what you can.

For anybody who cares, I am getting a degree in something other than aviation. I will work on my ratings during the summers and other breaks, and finish whatever else I have to after I graduate. I will then instruct, and as I gain the time, send out some resumes to the airlines. I am doing it the 'old-fashioned' way, and am not doing any PFT crap.

No I do not support B777 captains making $40K/year, and I will NEVER vote for lower pay at any time, regardless of the airplane or airline. I am sickened at the industry right now myself and the fact that other young pilots are taking these pay cuts to simply fly the jets. I do not support G0JetFvcks, and wouldn't give them the time of day. I believe you can make a decent living as a pilot, it just takes time. Does this mean there aren't bumpy roads? No. I understand regional FO pay sucks, but note I said "it just takes time". Yes, flying is all I have ever wanted to do, and no I can't imagine doing anything else. Is there something wrong with this? I don't think so, plenty of people go into career fields, not having wanted to do anything else. I am not in it for glamour, money, or anything else. I simply LOVE flying.

When I say that you all should be thankful you have a job, this is what I mean. Plenty of peopel are complaining about the industry, and understandably so. But, some of these people complaining DO have jobs. You could easily NOT have a job, and thus I said 'be thankful you have a job'. Simple as that. If you find that wrong, than you are reading too much into it, or completely missing my point. My only point was, why you are complaining, realize things could be worse.

I am sorry some of you cannot see why anyone would want to be a pilot. I am sorry that many of you have been going through a rough time in the industry lately. It is not my fault, however, and I am simply looking to you all for motivation and advice, as I have nobody else in my family in the industry, and nobody else to turn to for questions about becoming a pilot. I understand and respect those of you who advise people like me to stay away from the industry, but doing it in a more respectful manner would be nice. I have NEVER been disrespectful to anybody on these boards, and although I may be inexperienced, and not have all of the knowledge, I still like to try to brighten the mood and bring some positive to some of the threads. Hence the reason I am often seen sticking up for situations when there is a lot of negative going on, whether it be about pay, the state of the industry, etc.

 

[cforst513]

what, this dude isn't even in college yet and he's a moderator? did i miss something here?

 

[Captain Morgan]

Well, I for one was born to fly, in whatever capacity... If I'm furloughed I'll find another flying job, be it flight instruction, traffic watch, corporate, etc. Life will go on. Now that I fly jets, I sometime long to get back in a Baron or Cessna. There are things to be enjoyed in every aspect of flying. What has been lost is that in the golden years, pilots were pilots. That is to say, they were pilots in the military then after. They enjoyed their profession and stuck with it. Today, pilots think that they have to have something on the side, and become a business man as well; forever chasing after that almighty dollar. Love what you do and stick to it!

 

[satpak77]

you can put whatever you want in your profile, absent his "poor me" message above, pretty ballsy to put MODERATOR on your profile

I am almost in tears reading his post above

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

you can put whatever you want in your profile, absent his "poor me" message above, pretty ballsy to put MODERATOR on your profile

I am almost in tears reading his post above

Actually, I am a moderator. I recommended the "training" forum be created, and I was told if it were created I would have to moderate it. I didn't just put "moderator" in my profile.

My post above was not a "poor me". How was it poor me? All I did was ask for some advice. Please tell me what I did wrong? I don't understand where my asking for advice has led to you suddenly bashing me...?