I need advice on steps to create a 135 operation

[mattpilot]

i have a feeling someone will stomp on me again, but anyhow :

- Since your doing a single pilot operation, you have no need for 2 planes. Afterall, you can't fly both planes at the same time, and everytime a plane is not flying, your "loosing" money - or so they say . Also, you only need a backup plane when your doing tightly spaced scheduled service, which i doubt you will be able to do with the 'hour regulations' for one pilot. If you do get maintence problems that can't be fixed once the next flight is due, you can also always 'contract out' the work, or "outsource it" as it is known to another pilot on the field. I'm sure someone else can elaborate on the complications of this.

- Cost of plane - I'm assuming you will lease/purchase a plane and figure in the monthly payment into the operating cost ? Seems like the smart thing to do unless you have an extra million The Smaller 8 seat caravan 675 (9 actually, since you can let one person seat on co-pilot seat since its a small plane), costs 1650000 USD NEW. That is, if you want it new. Usually, when buying a plane you pay down 10-20% and got the rest on a lease. I'm gonna assume your not gonna have a problem finding a used caravan for 1mil in good conditions, so say 150k startup cost right there.

- as for time to certification - i've been told a minimum of 6 months after applying but i'm sure the guys on this forum have first hand experience and know better.


Now i got a question - what region are you planning on doing something? Is it Bush or regular? You trying to do scheduled or on-demand?

 

[jshaff]

mattpilot- Thanks for the info. What is the difference between a Single pilot operation and a Single PIC operation? Is there a big difference regulatory wise?

I do not know what will fit the situation best, (on-demand or scheduled) and I am sending out surveys to different companies right now to find out what they desire. I will try to accomidate my customers as best I can. I plan on offering my services to local corporations.

-jshaff

 

[mattpilot]

local corps. as in Cargo or pax?


I guess what you could do is go to Travel agencys and tell them your planning on doing this route and ask if there is any demand. Then you could work out something with them where they would hire you to fly a group back and forth. This would be an "on-demand" operation. A scheduled operation is where you publish your routes and times a significant time before you do it. Like Delta/AA/United etc... You can book a flight in advance. Then, if you make more than 5 round trips a week, you become a commuter operation. <- this adds another layer of regulations.

By the brief description you gave, i'm guessing you're gonna do On-demand stuff. Those corps. are gonna basically ask you to fly a certain route at a certain time, correct? With this type of operation your gonna have the least problems/regulations.


Difference between Single Pilot operation and a single PIC operation? Big difference. Once you got more than one pilot in your roster, you will need additional staff, like Director of Operations, Chief Pilot & Maintence director. One person can fulfill multiple roles, but i guess he will then demand a nice salary too . Now a Single PIC operation is where only one pilot is on the plane. Basically, you can't have more than 10 seats, the airplane type-certification can't require more than 1 pilot, or you can't operate single pilot in IFR conditions, UNLESS you got an approved auto-pilot for IFR conditions, then you may operate under IFR single pilot. I do believe the caravan has a very good auto-pilot.

 

[mattpilot]

just found this gem on ANN:

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=1d8aacc9-b87b-482c-8b61-9fb298b9ca61&#d

90G's.. pay 20% down and its yours.... Of course it can only hold 4 pax + 1 in co-pilot seat and it isn't as 'roomy' as a caravan, but it makes for a good starter aircraft.

If you tell us what kind of operation your planning on doing - what payload requirements (pax or cargo & weight), then we could help you find a good aircraft. Finding the right aircraft for your operation is key to success. This aircraft's operating cost is about half of a caravan, but it also goes 1/3 slower. Tell us as much as you want to share about your plan and tell us what kind of people you want to cater too. All helps in picking the right aircraft. Geographic region would also help.


Btw, small clarification from above post: when i said 'scheduled service' don't confuse it with 121 operations. As long as you don't fly a jet or don't have an aircraft with more than 9 pax seats, you can do scheduled operations under 135. Again, it would help if we knew what you were planning on doing.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

http://www.wisconsinaviation.com/acsales/specs76seneca.html / http://www.wisconsinaviation.com/acsales/76seneca.html

Cheap Seneca, but in a little rougher condition than the cessna posted above. I have been eyeing it for my multi training when I get that far.

 

[mattpilot]

just noticed in the link that I posted that this aircraft has no Auto-pilot. So you couldn't use it for Single Pilot IFR operations. This is stuff you would have to look out for when choosing a plane.

Oh, and another thing to consider is the look of an aircraft - as a passenger i wouldn't be to fond of the burgundy color as an interior hehe

 

[philo beddoe]

Matt - I hope you weren't referring to me as jumping on you.
Didn;t intend to, I just love a good debate.

To clarify the single pilot / single pic issue:


Single pilot operator: One pilot only is authorized to do ANY operations. No SIC's are alowed, and no other PIC's. I am 90% sure that you can't have a backup plane on the certificate either.


Single PIC: This allows only one PIC, but up to three SIC's. This is primarily geared toward large turboprop or jet aircraft that require a crew of two. In this instance, no management personnel are required either. It is pretty much like the sinle pilot, except for the three SIC's. The certification process is streamlined, and many hoops can be bypassed.

Basic 135: This certificate allows up to five pilots (including the chief) and five aircraft. There may be PIC's and SIC's. This is the first certification level that requires management personnel; Dir. of Operations, Chief Pilot, Dir. of Maint.
However, you may combine two of the positions, i.e. Do and CP are the same guy, or DO and DM, etc.

Full 135: You may not combine management personnel here. This is essentially an unlimited certificate. As many airplanes and pilots as your POI will approve.

When you get really big, the FAA may require you to have assistant chief pilots, or chiefs for a particular fleet of aircraft. I believe that some airlines work it that way.


I don't think that the single PIC cert will do much for you, unless you are planning on a big airplane.

Continued on next post...

 

[philo beddoe]

As to the timetable? It will depend on a few things.


1) Your level of preparation and knowledge. As the FAA might say, they are not your editorial staff. If you continue to submit partially complete paperwork, you are going to get pushed to the back burner. Definitely be studied up.

2) FAA workload. Existing certificate holders take priority. If your FSDO is understaffed, expect it to take a while.

3) Your ability to get things done. How fast can you read an advisory circular and modify your manual? How fast can you write policy? Do you understand the intent of the FARs well enough to effectively write SOP without constant checking with the FAA?

Previous 135 or 121 experience is very valuable here, since you understand the operational aspects involved.

Bottom line, if you go in prepared and knowledgeable, you will get done relatively soon.

Go in poorly prepared, it could take years.


To do a single pilot operator with a simple aircraft could take as little as 6 months. Consider hiring a consultant to help you. It costs some bucks, but you will be done MUCH sooner.

The downside of consultants? The FAA will want to make sure that you are not trying to buy your way to certification. They may dig extra deep to make sure you understand your own books, since you did not personally develop them.

Continued...

 

[philo beddoe]

Suggested steps:


1) Get a single pilot operation going right away. You will not need a training program, or a general operations manual.

2) While you rake in the millions, develop your manuals. Find qualified people to staff the positions.

3) Apply to upgrade your operation to Basic 135. Pass go, collect $200.

Congratulations, you are ready to take on Jetblue.

 

[JAFI]

Try these web sites for info on how to set up a 135 operation


http://www.alaska.faa.gov/jnufsdo/





http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/atl/n135toc.htm

JAFI

 

[dav8or]

1. The best way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large one.

2. Instead of a 135 op why not start with a fractional. Find a couple of people to split a plane and pay yourself a management and pilot salary.

3. If you have a degree in Aviation Management then you should know how to bleed a company dry and still have a golden parachute.

 

[TedCFII]

Here is another good website which has the video they make you watch, take a look at it, it will answer some of your questions.

http://www.faa.gov/fsdo/orl/precertification/welcome1.cfm