I Know How To Fix Airways

[vrb115]

Get rid of all of those high paid 30 to 40 year rampers these people are makin 70 to 90k a year


Problem Solved

Maybe Gordo can help

 

[WhiteCloud]

Get rid of all of those high paid 30 to 40 year rampers these people are makin 70 to 90k a year


Problem Solved

Maybe Gordo can help

And while were at it why don't we get rid of those highly paid 5 year J41 Captains that are making more than the new J41 Captains. Maybe we can get rid of a few J41 FO's too so we can charge new hires for training and make some bucks that way.

 

[BobbyB]

Whitecloud, sounds like they are grooming you for the top slot! You may have a bright future in management, or at least consulting!

 

[vrb115]

Hey Whitecloud a 5 yr J41 capt doesn't even make as much as a ramper These mainline rampers r taken down Airways

 

[WhiteCloud]

Whitecloud, sounds like they are grooming you for the top slot! You may have a bright future in management, or at least consulting!

Ouch......Did you guys get the sarcasm? If you head down that slope of firing the senior union guys on the ramp, it's only a matter of time before it hits the pilot ranks. A new Captain is legally qualified to fly the J41 on a trip just as legally as a 5 year Captain. Without some kind of seniority based pay you'll never see a pay raise of significance.

 

[Dizel8]

We should just get rid of all the high paid pilots and then do PFT with hour builders. Yeah, that should work.

 

[j41driver]

...These mainline rampers r taken down Airways

Didn't the company and the union agree to pay these people what they are paid??????

 

[Guppydriver]

vrb115

It is in your best interest to stop posting on this subject immediately. You are showing your true ignorance.

regards

 

[I.P. Freley]

Ignorant?

I'm not so sure about that. He may be (note I said MAY be) overstating what the senior rampies are making, he's not entirely wrong in questioning the peak pay scales for Airways ramp personnel. I've talked to some ramp people who've taken pay cuts in the fifty percent range when they were "downgraded" to the USAirExp division from their former positions as "mainline" ramp personnel.

From what they told me about their new and improved pay rate, they're still making around $28-30k assuming a 2000hr work year... So I guess they were formerly making at least $50k.

In other words, if they were doing ramp duties on a 1900 on the old pay scale, a single guy chucking the bags was making more annually than both of the pilots combined.

Without getting mean or anything, is ANY ramp worker worth $50k/yr., to say nothing of $70k?

I'd be interested to see the true pay scale for ramp personnel at the major airlines.

 

[fracflyer]

Without getting mean or anything, is ANY ramp worker worth $50k/yr., to say nothing of $70k?

Maybe rampers are just better negotiators than the pilots.

 

[smellthejeta]

Maybe rampers are just better negotiators than the pilots.

There's a lot of truth to that. In a non-union environment, an employee is worth whatever management will pay them. In a union environment, you're worth what you can negotiate. We can sit here and debate ad nasuem what a pilot is worth, but it is like my dad used to tell me about baseball cards... The "book value" might be X, but it is only worth what you can get somebody to pay you for it.

Likewise, you can say that your services are worth whatever you want to say they are worth, but you are only truly worth what your management pays you. If an employee truly feels he is worth more than he is paid, why did he accept the contract?

 

[typhoonpilot]

It isn't the pay per hour that is the problem ( for the most part ) it is the productivity of the employees and the structure of the jobs. The best example to use is Southwest. At one point over a year ago USAirways and Southwest had exactley the same number of airplanes, yet USAirways ( who flew those airplanes on average 30 to 50 % less per day ) had 800 more pilots. The Southwest pilots now make more per hour than the Airways pilots but are much more productive. The same can be taken for baggage handlers. Southwest won't start a new city unless they can do a minimum of 6 flights per day. That makes it viable to have full time staff working at that facility, anything less and you end up with employees sitting around doing nothing for large portions of the day.

When Airways starting downsizing the medium size cities they served that is the probelm they ended up with. It became unviable to keep full time employees there as they were not productive. That is why it is so difficult to downsize an airline to profitability. As the revenue and productivity drop it becomes a viscious circle ( or spiral dive ) as the fixed costs can't drop as rapidly.

One area that Airways had a chance to address in bankruptcy and didn't was the aircraft cleaners that do in fact make 60-90k per year as they are part of the IAM contract. That should have ended and gone to either F.A.s cleaning the aircraft or sub-contractors cleaning the aircraft, but definitely not 60-90k per year lazy unionized workers who are never around when you need them.

Typhoonpilot

 

[exphojump]

Radical route surgery,

IMO

They should sell all the PHL operations and slots to the highest bidder. Dump the PIT slots and facilities for what they can get.

Keep the shuttle, DCA slots, CLT, and the Airbus aircraft. Dump all the non Airbus aircraft.

Grow MidAtlantic with the Emb 170/190 aircraft and dump all turboprops.

Why?

In my own experience the rampers at PHL and PIT are consistantly unmotivated. The TWA and United rampers at these stations are some of the worst I've seen on the east coast. I've been told the USair rampers are just as bad. It was explained to me that many of the original unionized rampers in PA have a tradition of militancy inherited from coal mining unions.

PHL is a cluster, nough said.

Keep the DCA and shuttle slots and provide all jet service to make the politicians happy in DC.

Move all the international they can to CLT and make that their main hub, the ground personnel can survive on lower wages in this region. Two types at mainline A320 and A330 series.

JMO

Flame away

 

[vrb115]

Thanks Ip Freley you see my point these guys throw bags thats it they took hardly any concesions and get paid more than u and i together sorry they need to go they sit on there ass all day and bitch we on the other hand r educated type ratings etc they have nothing Usairways will die just like the steel industry you cant pay someone without education fo pushing around a broom

Sorry guys i just need to vent

 

[JBrocks]

As a twice furloughed pilot from Airways, I think the only way to fix US Airways is a complete culture change.

Somehow I don't think that is possible. Too many years of mistrust between management and the employees. A lot of deep deep bitterness.

It's really such a shame..alot of great people there!

My heart goes out to all!

 

[AA717driver]

I'm sure the USAir rampers had the same scam going but the TWA rampers made in the $50-60k range.

They would get together with other rampers and figure out who would be up for overtime. They would pick someone on a shift to call in sick and the O.T. guy would get time-and-a-half and the other guy would get a day off. Then, they would reverse it.

You ended up with half the people on a shift on O.T. every day.

Oh, well, the company signed the contract.TC