I guess no doesn't mean no for Delta

[Flopgut]

Good article to get you up to speed bubba

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article3877464.html

No Ft Worth did not "make out"

 

[SWA Bubba]

Facts are facts. Swa lives with the result of the WA because the other side had a solid case. And it was not only American in opposition to SWA.

Yes, facts are facts. Unfortunately, you nearly always have none. Just the crap you make up. The fact is, SWA lived with the result of the WA because the other side had their political stooge change the law to suit them. Prior to that, the other side's "solid case" was literally laughed out of every court in the land. Over and over. Up to and including the US Supreme Court.

What we need is high speed rail between Love and Dfw. Wonder if SWA would be on board with that? Make them function like one airport. Would be good in Houston as well. Might be too far fetched, but anything that affords a level playing field is all anyone wants. Well, except swa

Are you kidding? Southwest would love that. But you might want to ask your bosses before suggesting that, as I don't think they'd agree. Southwest would then be able to siphon off some of American's international Dallas passengers into our domestic traffic. Ditto some of United's far-international passengers in Houston.

Great idea, Flop! You should push this with Unical's management!

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Good article to get you up to speed bubba

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/article3877464.html

No Ft Worth did not "make out"

Interesting article, Flop, but thanks anyway; I AM up to speed.

You might notice that the article referred to DFW as a great economic hub, supporting that city. That's something they didn't have with just their own airport. Ever. If both Ft Worth and Dallas both had separate, large airports, Ft Worth would be sucking wind right now (unless they could also talk a major airline into making it a hub for connectors), since their local traffic is a fraction of that destined for Dallas.

So yes, they ARE "making out," compared to each city having its own airport.

And it's not surprising that they're against Dallas Love in general. Duh. I'm sure they'd prefer that literally every Dallas-bound passenger brought some money to Ft Worth, instead of just the 80% who do now, by traveling through DFW instead of Love. No kidding--that's how they make money. I'd bet that American would similarly wish that every passenger in general flew on them instead of splitting passenger traffic with Southwest (and United, Delta, etc.)

This has to be one of the weakest arguments you've ever tried to bootstrap. Try again.

Bubba

 

[maru657]

Fascinating, while I don't have a dog in this fight, it's fun to watch. Southwest might loose some of that "welfare" airspace.

 

[Flopgut]

Bubba: This issue goes back to 1927. How do you manage to think that the swa component of this makes up the entirety of its history? The world does not revolve around swa. What should have happened in place of the wa was a class action lawsuit that closed Love. (There really ought to be one in Houston to stop your Hobby FIS. No airline should be allowed to sharpshoot public expenditure on large airport investments.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Fascinating, while I don't have a dog in this fight, it's fun to watch. Southwest might loose some of that "welfare" airspace.

While, I doubt Southwest is going to "loose" anything, I should point out that Southwest is one of the few airlines that has never asked for or received "welfare" of any sort.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Bubba: This issue goes back to 1927. How do you manage to think that the swa component of this makes up the entirety of its history? The world does not revolve around swa. What should have happened in place of the wa was a class action lawsuit that closed Love.

Uh, we've been through this before, Flop. They tried a "class action lawsuit" to close Love Field exactly like you just suggested. That was one of the first moves. The result?--It was soundly defeated and thrown out of every single friggin' court in the land. And then, after multiple frivolous attempts, the court even enjoined the other parties from using the courts from even trying this crap again. A nearly unprecedented legal ass-whuppin'--the court essentially told the other parties to "shut up, and knock off the frivolous BS."

And nobody believes that the "world revolves around SWA." However, we're entitled to run our business the way we want, in accordance with the laws. Not the way that you want. The world also doesn't revolve around you, trying to screw Southwest. Because that's all we ever hear from you.

(There really ought to be one in Houston to stop your Hobby FIS. No airline should be allowed to sharpshoot public expenditure on large airport investments.

"Sharpshoot public expenditure?" What kind of new babble is this? Exactly what "public expenditure" are you referring to, Flop? Southwest is paying for the new terminal itself. The city is building a parking garage, where they expect to make tons of money from it. That's a money-making investment for them. And the federal government is manning the FIS, as it's required to do for every airport that has international flying. And that particular installation and its employees are paid for by passenger charges on the new international traffic--just like every other airport in the land.

Bubba

 

[Flopgut]

The effects [limits] of the WA live on Bubba. No matter your heavy word count posts and all the bawling from swa "People". The reason: Ft Worth and others had a legal right and proper necessity to put it into place. Ft Worth would have much rather had the under used smaller airport (where a discounter would be dug in today and ripping your nuts off) than have been forced by the Federal govt to participate in DFW. And if Delta/RA want to take a duke in your punch bowl, that's their right. You need to live with it, since it's pretty much what swa makes their $ doing. RA wants to make this messy, keep the story in the Dallas media, and continue to reveal swa as the cake eater airline that it is. The pendulum will swing a third time, and you may not have a soft landing when it does.

 

[redflyer65]

"Sharpshoot public expenditure?" What kind of new babble is this? Exactly what "public expenditure" are you referring to, Flop? Southwest is paying for the new terminal itself. The city is building a parking garage, where they expect to make tons of money from it. That's a money-making investment for them. And the federal government is manning the FIS, as it's required to do for every airport that has international flying. And that particular installation and its employees are paid for by passenger charges on the new international traffic--just like every other airport in the land.

Bubba

The only real argument Flop has at Hobby is a parking garage. Think about that for a minute.

The city is going to go BROKE building a parking garage for God sake!!! Forget the fact that they will clean up for the parking fees and pay the bill on the facility 10 times over. Maybe one of the best deals for a city government on the planet. But Flop is still outraged!

 

[Andy]

Actually, Andy, that's not quite what happened.

The gates (slots, really) that Southwest picked up in LGA and DCA were bought by Southwest either at auction, or directly from the other airlines in question. Some were marketed or auctioned by the other airlines as a condition of approval in merger; others on their own. Regardless, Southwest bought them from willing sellers.

Just like we paid for the subleases from United at Love. Delta was certainly allowed to make a superior offer for the gates if they wanted them; for their own reasons, they declined to.

Not the same thing at all.

Here's an idea--why don't all the airlines lobby to increase the number of allowable gates at Love? That way, any airline could do what they wanted there. Southwest wouldn't object, and everyone wins, right?

Well, everyone wins but Flopgut, whose head might explode. He seems more interested in simply hurting Southwest, than in actually helping anyone else, or promoting the industry in general.

Bubba

LUV got those gates because other airlines were forced to divest due to the high percentage of flights that they had at those airports. LUV has a near monopoly at DAL. The reason why it doesn't appear to be the same at all to you is because LUV's monopoly is much higher than those other airlines had at those airports.
Build more gates? Hmmm - why didn't LUV try to do that at airports where they benefitted from the loss of other airlines?

Like it or not, LUV is no longer the underdog airline and will probably start to get gates/slots/assets poached by other airlines, with the endorsement of government agencies. We've watched that happen for more than a decade to the legacies - interesting to see the reaction now that it's not United/American/Delta whose gates/slots are being taken away.

 

[bluesideup1]

LUV got those gates because other airlines were forced to divest due to the high percentage of flights that they had at those airports. LUV has a near monopoly at DAL. The reason why it doesn't appear to be the same at all to you is because LUV's monopoly is much higher than those other airlines had at those airports.
Build more gates? Hmmm - why didn't LUV try to do that at airports where they benefitted from the loss of other airlines?

Like it or not, LUV is no longer the underdog airline and will probably start to get gates/slots/assets poached by other airlines, with the endorsement of government agencies. We've watched that happen for more than a decade to the legacies - interesting to see the reaction now that it's not United/American/Delta whose gates/slots are being taken away.

You seem not to understand the situation as only one airline was forced to divest their single gate due to the government. That is what this whole fight is about. Just one!

Everything else was agreed to during negotiations. If Delta wanted the gates they could have come in at any time and used some of their political capital to make it happen. They chose to do nothing and are now crying about the Binding agreement that was made to rid Love of the Wright Amendment.

Southwest wanted as many gates as the airport could support and fought hard to get as many as possible. The only problem is that SW was fighting a Mayor whose husband was on the BOD at American and didn't want to give up any more than they had to. If Delta had joined the fight I am sure they could have secured some gates and maybe even stopped the prohibition on international but they were silent.

The fact that Delta want to come in and abrogate the contract that was agreed to by all those involved just reeks of too little to late. As I said before I would love for them to sue over the the contract and void it completely. Then we could talk about getting more gate space for everyone now that they would finally have a dog in this fight.

As for the question on why didn't SW just build more gates at the places they were awarded? That is just a stupid question. How many more gates can anyone build in LGA, DCA or any of the other places we received slots? Just about every one is space or flow limited unlike Love that is only limited by a convoluted agreement.

 

[Flopgut]

They chose to do nothing and are now crying about the Binding agreement that was made to rid Love of the Wright Amendment.

That's not it in the least bit. Make no mistake, this is about a show of inflexibility to accept one airline as special. RA wants the WA terms to stay and he wants swa forced to accommodate Delta. It's no less than would be (or has been) done for swa.

 

[Flopgut]

The fact that Delta want to come in and abrogate the contract that was agreed to by all those involved just reeks of too little to late.

Wow! That "reeks" but swa staying at Love 40 years ago (and creating all these problems for decades) doesn't?! Straight up arrogance on your part bubba

 

[Flopgut]

Southwest wanted as many gates as the airport could support and fought hard to get as many as possible. The only problem is that SW was fighting a Mayor whose husband was on the BOD at American and didn't want to give up any more than they had to. If Delta had joined the fight I am sure they could have secured some gates and maybe even stopped the prohibition on international but they were silent.

Swa spin. Complete bs. This is about a municipality disenfranchised [Ft Worth] by poor Federal and State decision making. (Read the link before and you'll understand) If this were only about one legacy airline and a Mayor I'm pretty sure swa would get their way [HOUSTON]. Is that somehow not obvious enough for you?

 

[Flopgut]

Uh, we've been through this before, Flop. They tried a "class action lawsuit" to close Love Field exactly like you just suggested. That was one of the first moves. The result?--It was soundly defeated and thrown out of every single friggin' court in the land. And then, after multiple frivolous attempts, the court even enjoined the other parties from using the courts from even trying this crap again. A nearly unprecedented legal ass-whuppin'--the court essentially told the other parties to "shut up, and knock off the frivolous BS."

And nobody believes that the "world revolves around SWA." However, we're entitled to run our business the way we want, in accordance with the laws. Not the way that you want. The world also doesn't revolve around you, trying to screw Southwest. Because that's all we ever hear from you.



"Sharpshoot public expenditure?" What kind of new babble is this? Exactly what "public expenditure" are you referring to, Flop? Southwest is paying for the new terminal itself. The city is building a parking garage, where they expect to make tons of money from it. That's a money-making investment for them. And the federal government is manning the FIS, as it's required to do for every airport that has international flying. And that particular installation and its employees are paid for by passenger charges on the new international traffic--just like every other airport in the land.

Bubba

The class action, and all the legal challenges went on and on because the results continued to be inconsistent with what reality was. Any other entity would have lost, but the decision was made to prop up swa and make sure deregulation had a chance. The lawsuit result is what was frivolous. This is one of those read between the lines/big picture things you and red struggle with. (Purposely I'm sure) As you and I discussed in our last thread, Kahns deregulation crowd felt the world "needed more swas" in the late 90s and feared for the LCC model. Then the world changed and legacy models suffered. The govt deliberately withheld any support and let swa and other LCC flourish. That's another helping hand given swa. The truth is, since deregulation, the industry has been terraformed for swa's advantage. However legacies will make a comeback, and will pbly once again leapfrog swa and other LCC. When this happens the question will be: what will be done to help swa again? By acting out at Love in the way RA is, he's trying to change the business climate that allows certain airlines to be favored. He's trying to change the big picture strategy that is against Delta and other legacies.