I guess no doesn't mean no for Delta

[Flopgut]

This is fun Howie. I think United and Delta probably were in on this together. Love Field doesn't mean squat to either of them, but it's crucial to SWA. Crucial like it was to Braniff decades ago.... now their putting you in Braniff's shoes Did it to yourselves my friend. Yeah, Delta could go over to DFW, but so could Southwest 40 years ago Cheers!

 

[HowardBorden]

This is fun Howie. I think United and Delta probably were in on this together. Love Field doesn't mean squat to either of them, but it's crucial to SWA. Crucial like it was to Braniff decades ago.... now their putting you in Braniff's shoes Did it to yourselves my friend. Yeah, Delta could go over to DFW, but so could Southwest 40 years ago Cheers!

You're right Flop. 5 flights a day to Atlanta by Delta will probably topple the whole Love operation for SWA!

You always seem to forget that SWA very rarely loses in court because they usually know when the law is on their side.

 

[Flopgut]

I just think they're having fun with you. No one thinks you'll topple. Just fun to watch you squirm. And the law's a squirrelly thing my friend. Good move by RA to keep everyone honest.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Southwest Airlines asks court to kick Delta Air Lines out of Love Field gates

Southwest Airlines spokesman Brad Hawkins explained why the carrier filed the request for an injunction:

"Alongside and in support of the City's suit seeking legal clarity around gate usage at Dallas Love Field, Southwest is asking the federal court in Dallas to protect tens of thousands of Southwest Customers traveling to and from dozens of cities by preventing Delta from trespassing on Southwest's lawfully leased gates at Love Field."
"As noted in our request of the court, Delta continues a pattern of disregard for passengers by knowingly selling tickets beyond its legal authority to operate at Love Field. Delta can solve the problem it created by moving these passengers traveling to/from/through Atlanta to numerous flights Delta already operates at DFW International Airport, which, unlike Love Field, has an abundance of available gate space."

A Delta spokesman said Delta would stand by its Friday statement. That statement asserted its legal right to serve Love Field and criticized the city for failing to enforce Delta's rights.

ORIGINAL ITEM: As reported in our City Hall blog by Robert Wilonsky, Southwest Airlines is asking the federal district court in Dallas to declare that Delta Air Lines will be trespassing in Southwest's Dallas Love Field gates as of July 7.

Here's the gist of the Southwest's summation of the situation:

"Southwest has implemented plans to fully utilize its 18 gates after the Delta license expires. Indeed, Southwest will operate 180 flights a day, or an industry-leading gate utilization of ten flights a day per gate, and has already sold in excess of 25,000 tickets to passengers who will fly on five new flights that will be run out of the gates that Delta is currently utilizing. Remarkably, Delta has told Southwest and the City that it will not vacate Southwest's Love Field gates when its license expires, meaning that Delta has admitted that it will trespass on Southwest's property beginning on July 7, 2015. And Delta's current actions further indicate Delta's intent to trespass. Indeed, Delta is currently selling tickets for travel out of Southwest's gates after July 6."

Delta sent a letter Friday to the city saying that its patience was up and that it was preparing to seek an injunction to force the city to allow Delta to continue operating out of Love Field past July 6.

And that came after the city on Wednesday sued all the airlines and the federal government, asking the court to referee the Southwest-Delta gate dispute. That's the case in which Southwest filed its subsequent request for an injunctoin.

"Southwest is seeking injunctive relief prohibiting Delta from trespassing on Southwest's gates and a declaration from this Court that Southwest Airlines is the sole lawful operator of the gates after July 6, 2015. To that end, Southwest files its Brief in Support of its Verified Application for Temporary Restraining Order, Preliminary Injunction, and Permanent Injunction Against Delta Air Lines, Inc. contemporaneously herewith," Southwest said in its filing.

U.S. District Judge Ed Kinkeade, who is handling the city's lawsuit, has given the parties until noon Tuesday to respond to that lawsuit. Replies to the responses are due by noon Wednesday.

As of Monday, June 22, we?re only 15 days away from July 7.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/...delta-air-lines-out-of-love-field-gates.html/

This kinda seems familiar........couldn't be the same thing that SWA wanted to do to UAL, could it? We are SWA and want to compete now, give us your routes, NOW!

Wait.....hang on. DAL we decided we don't want to compete against you. We took the gate and your SOL. Get over it and move on.

Wasn't one of the previous posts about irony?

 

[Ex737Driver]

You're right Flop. 5 flights a day to Atlanta by Delta will probably topple the whole Love operation for SWA!

You always seem to forget that SWA very rarely loses in court because they usually know when the law is on their side.

And how much money to shove under the table.

 

[SWA Bubba]

And how much money to shove under the table.

That would be, "over the table," Driver. We shoved money at United in a deal to sublease their controlled gates. If Delta had wanted the gates so much, they were certainly allowed to offer to "shove" a larger amount of money at United in order to secure a lease instead of us. I guess they didn't want it that badly.

Say, aren't you a United guy? You're really gonna' sell Southwest something, take our money, and then bitch and whine about what happens next? That's pretty funny.

Bubba

 

[canyonblue]

Wait.....hang on. DAL we decided we don't want to compete against you. We took the gate and your SOL. Get over it and move on.

Wasn't one of the previous posts about irony?

No you moron, the problem is we have already sold tickets for NEW destinations that would require the new gates. Not like Delta that just wants to add more flights to Atlanturd. I think they are the ones who just shove money under the table, and it didn't work this time.

 

[HowardBorden]

Delta, Southwest reach temporary agreement on gate space at Love Field

Delta Air Lines and Southwest Airlines reached a temporary agreement on Wednesday to allow Delta to continue operating flights out of Dallas Love Field as legal issues are resolved.
The agreement will be in place until a federal court in Dallas holds a hearing to decide whether or not the city of Dallas has to accommodate Delta?s request to keep access to gate space at Love Field even though Southwest Airlines holds the lease to those gates. Southwest was pressing for Delta to leave early next month.
?Delta is pleased that Southwest has agreed to continue accommodating the five flights Delta currently operates at Love Field while the airlines pursue a long-term resolution in the courts,? the Atlanta-based airline said in a statement.
Demand for gates at Love Field has become an issue since last fall?s expiration of the Wright Amendment, which had restricted flights to nearby states.
Currently, Delta offers five daily flights to Atlanta out of Love Field but its temporary agreement with Southwest to use gate space was set to expire on July 6. Southwest plans to expand its flight schedule to 180 daily flights out of Love Field by August and the Dallas-based carrier said it needs all 18 of the 20 gates it controls for the expanded service.
?I can confirm that we have an agreement in principle to temporarily extend Delta?s license agreement while we await the opportunity for the court to hear our arguments,? said Southwest spokesman Brad Hawkins in an e-mail statement.
The court had originally scheduled a hearing on Monday to hear emergency motions in the case, but that has now been canceled. A full hearing in the case, which was filed by the city of Dallas last week, has not been set.

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/news/business/aviation/sky-talk-blog/article25443769.html#storylink=cpy​

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Logical move on SWA's behalf, should DAL prevail in the suit and retain the gates - this mitigates the possibity of SW having to pay damages.

 

[Andy]

That would be, "over the table," Driver. We shoved money at United in a deal to sublease their controlled gates. If Delta had wanted the gates so much, they were certainly allowed to offer to "shove" a larger amount of money at United in order to secure a lease instead of us. I guess they didn't want it that badly.

Say, aren't you a United guy? You're really gonna' sell Southwest something, take our money, and then bitch and whine about what happens next? That's pretty funny.

Bubba

Hmmm. I seem to remember LUV getting gates taken away from the majors by DOT when the majors have been forced to 'divest' due to lack of competition. Why are you guys getting so upset about the possibility of being forced to divest at DAL? ... I guess all's good when you can grab gates at LGA and DCA from other airlines that didn't want to surrender them, but when the same thing happens at DAL, it's not fair? It appears that Delta's stolen a page from LUV's playbook ...

 

[bluesideup1]

Hmmm. I seem to remember LUV getting gates taken away from the majors by DOT when the majors have been forced to 'divest' due to lack of competition. Why are you guys getting so upset about the possibility of being forced to divest at DAL? ... I guess all's good when you can grab gates at LGA and DCA from other airlines that didn't want to surrender them, but when the same thing happens at DAL, it's not fair? It appears that Delta's stolen a page from LUV's playbook ...

Actually Andy the problem is the whole Wright amendment. I don't think anyone would have a problem with Delta, United, American coming into Luv if it were not for the artificial limitations put on SW by the Wright agreement.

Remember before there was an agreement made to let love fly outside of Texas without stopping SW was going to each individual state and getting the law changed to allow SW to fly direct to that state. AA saw the writing on the wall and with the city of Dallas came to an agreement to remove the restrictions based on SW never flying international directly from Love and to limit SW to only 20 gates. This is after waiting 8 years to come to fruition. Now that SW put all the time and effort preparing for this Delta just wants to swoop in and take a gate that its lease was up and should not have?

Now on the other hand if Delta wants to challenge the Wright agreement to get more gates above the 20 that are there. They could do it since they were not part of the original agreement and there are no traffic or space limitations just artificial ones then I don't think anyone would object and I think even SW would support that call.

 

[Flopgut]

Remember before there was an agreement made to let love fly outside of Texas without stopping SW was going to each individual state and getting the law changed to allow SW to fly direct to that state. AA saw the writing on the wall and with the city of Dallas came to an agreement to remove the restrictions based on SW never flying international directly from Love and to limit SW to only 20 gates. This is after waiting 8 years to come to fruition. Now that SW put all the time and effort preparing for this Delta just wants to swoop in and take a gate that its lease was up and should not have?

American gets vilified for this, but the most disenfranchised party to the WA drama (and the one with the most pull placing restrictions on LOVE Field) is the City of Ft Worth. Not so distant, the legal claims Braniff made that it was completely wrong that they were forced to serve 2 cities with one airport [DFW].

I don't think FT Worth wants more than 20 gates at Love... SWA could move to DFW though. Lots of airlines poured $ into Love and then left, swa could do the same and do anything they want. What's wrong with that?

 

[SWA Bubba]

Hmmm. I seem to remember LUV getting gates taken away from the majors by DOT when the majors have been forced to 'divest' due to lack of competition. Why are you guys getting so upset about the possibility of being forced to divest at DAL? ... I guess all's good when you can grab gates at LGA and DCA from other airlines that didn't want to surrender them, but when the same thing happens at DAL, it's not fair? It appears that Delta's stolen a page from LUV's playbook ...

Actually, Andy, that's not quite what happened.

The gates (slots, really) that Southwest picked up in LGA and DCA were bought by Southwest either at auction, or directly from the other airlines in question. Some were marketed or auctioned by the other airlines as a condition of approval in merger; others on their own. Regardless, Southwest bought them from willing sellers.

Just like we paid for the subleases from United at Love. Delta was certainly allowed to make a superior offer for the gates if they wanted them; for their own reasons, they declined to.

Not the same thing at all.

Here's an idea--why don't all the airlines lobby to increase the number of allowable gates at Love? That way, any airline could do what they wanted there. Southwest wouldn't object, and everyone wins, right?

Well, everyone wins but Flopgut, whose head might explode. He seems more interested in simply hurting Southwest, than in actually helping anyone else, or promoting the industry in general.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

American gets vilified for this, but the most disenfranchised party to the WA drama (and the one with the most pull placing restrictions on LOVE Field) is the City of Ft Worth. Not so distant, the legal claims Braniff made that it was completely wrong that they were forced to serve 2 cities with one airport [DFW].

I don't think FT Worth wants more than 20 gates at Love... SWA could move to DFW though. Lots of airlines poured $ into Love and then left, swa could do the same and do anything they want. What's wrong with that?

Wrong again, Flop! You're a model of consistency; I'll give you that. :blush:

1. Ft Worth is hardly "disenfranchised" in any manner whatsoever. DFW is a huge economic generator for the region, overcrowded as it is. They "made out," in relation to the respective traffic at the two cities' original airports. The majority of local traffic at DFW comes from/to Dallas, so by sharing the revenue, the city of Ft Worth enjoys considerably more benefit, than if the two cities operated their own respective airports. Huge win for Ft Worth.

Besides, with the demise of the WA, if they wanted to operate their own airport in addition to DFW (i.e., their own "Love Field"), nobody would care or try to stop them. They just have no reason to do it, nor the traffic to justify it.

2. Braniff made no legal claims whatsoever that "it was wrong that they were forced to serve 2 cities with one airport." You just pulled that line of crap out of your a$$. Braniff was actually the driving airline force behind building DFW in the first place; they wanted it to support their growing operations. Also, they continued serving Love Field in addition, mainly to compete with Southwest, eventually leaving of their own accord. No one forced them to do anything, at any time, least of all confine operations to any particular airport.

The only legal action Braniff faced in regards to Dallas, was their initial frivolous lawsuit attempts to kill Southwest, and then their related criminal conviction for conspiracy (along with Texas International and your beloved Continental), in their later attempts of the same.

Bubba

 

[Flopgut]

Facts are facts. Swa lives with the result of the WA because the other side had a solid case. And it was not only American in opposition to SWA.

What we need is high speed rail between Love and Dfw. Wonder if SWA would be on board with that? Make them function like one airport. Would be good in Houston as well. Might be too far fetched, but anything that affords a level playing field is all anyone wants. Well, except swa