I flew thru an anvil. Should I be fired?

[mar]

Here's a discussion for you. Reference the short discussion between myself, Typhoon and Enigma in the "Corollary to a Scab" thread.

I didn't want to hijack Orion's thread any further so I started this thread.

For the sake of argument, let's say I'm the PIC of a DC9 and I flew through the anvil of a thunderstorm. Ever since my primary training it's been drilled into my thick skull, "Don't fly through, or under a thunderstorm and circum-navigate by at least 20 miles."

Further, every private pilot knows the hazards of operating too close to CBs: Turbulence, wind shear, hail and lightening.

Not only that, but in my company GOM flight through anvils (or overhangs) is clearly prohibited.

As a result of an encounter with severe turbulence associated with an anvil four passengers receive serious injuries, one of whom (an 80 year old man), dies 20 days later.

Should I be fired?
Or retrained?

To me, even though your average private pilot doesn't operate at FL310 in high performance jet aircraft, I think this case would qualify as careless and reckless because it's contrary to the most basic principles of airmanship.

There's nothing quirky about this case. It's stark negligence. I think I'd fire someone who committed such an act.

Any other thoughts?

 

[jarhead]

Lacking any extreme extenuating circumstances (like being hijacked and having a gun to your head), the answer is “Yes”, you should be fired. Whether the 80 year old died or not, is immaterial to the question.

There are absolutes that exist in this world. For an employee to intentionally place at risk, the lives of others and of property not yours is not a matter for ‘retraining’. You understood the rules of the company when you were employed, and supposedly you knew the FAR’s as well.

If this scenario is not a case for legal dismissal, I don’t know what would be.

Just my opinion……

 

[350DRIVER]

Surely ALPA/APA wouldn't fight this "possible" firing. nawwwww ( a tad of sarcasm injected) What should be just and proper punishment for a person's actions sometimes isn't always the case. It isn't usually as easy as fly through something bad, make a mistake, etc, and boom you are out of a job and on the streets.

It is easy to make a situation up here but in reality many variables must be considered and looked into prior to making a decision....

3 5 0

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If you flew through an anvil knowingly....you a too dangerous to be flying for my airline (or company)

do it by yourself in your own plane, not on the job..

CAT, unexpected severe turbulence, bumpy ride picking your way through an area of widespread storms, clearing them by 10 miles instead of 20 because thats te BEST you can in the given situation.....ok...we can work with that ...but knowingly penetrating a cell or an anvil...

I would vote your letting you go.

 

[Airpiraterob]

did it on purpose? hell yeah youre canned!

accidental? as in, comming out of a cloud and .."holy $hit thats an anvil! too late!" **POW**...well then theres such a thing as an accident....but then you had alot of turbulence to warn you of something liek that possibly nearby so what were you doing in the clouds like that anyway? you are allowed to turn a bit to avoid stuff...plus at FL310 youve got WX radar and you should know how to use it. but if theres enough to prove its a pure accident...then some remedial training is there for you..

but thats hard to prove so you get canned immediately and no hope for unemployment bennies.

 

[Ty Webb]

Boy, you guys are quick to convict.

I doubt we are talking about someone pointing the aircraft at a CB and going through it intentionally, that would be reckless, to be sure, but few things are that cut and dry.

Did he get himself boxed in by a line that closed around him? Was there a problem with the equipment, or the proper use thereof? What was the other pilot doing?

I would want to know more details, pull the tapes, check the equipment, review the training/checking and find out what the company policy is.

If it is a case of the guy intentionally penetrating a CB,though, then he is in violation of the SOP's and common sense and should be 'canned . . . . . and flogged.

 

[sky37d]

Fired, immediately. As in removed from the cockpit as soon as the plane gets to the gate.
We had some discussions about this sort of thing when I asked what is the safe altitude to fly in T-Storms, and someone said that they have repeatedly penetrated level 5 storms flying a baron. Can that guy. let him kill himself, but don't take any cargo or people with them.
Remedial training?? As in learning to wait on people at the 7-11? Yeah, I'm in favor of that.

 

[avbug]

I think you should go back and fly through it again.

I'll even pay you to do it and buy a ticket for my ex-mother-in-law.

I'll even pay to ride along and watch, so long as I get to sit behind her.

Lessee...knowingly endangering passengers...I guess taking off doesn't count then, does it?

 

[wingnutt]

yea...i think once is enough to cure anyone. although our Barons handled storms well, one good 3000fpm downdraft cured me of anything more than a level 4

 

[AA717driver]

Why weren't the pax strapped in? I've skirted under the anvil--but no too far. ALPA would get your job back and hopefully you would have learned your lesson.

In any event, if you have made an announcement for the pax and FA's to take their seats and fasten their seatbelts, you cannot be held responsible for them experiencing weightlessness...

Besides, the 80 year old didn't have much time left on his clock anyway! That's just more Social Security left for the rest of us! TC