I don't get it...

[Lazy8]

Last week three of my friends that are at three different regionals all told me they are ready to get out of the flying business. One is at SkyWest, one Air Wisconsin, and one at Horizon. Just like most of us, they all three spent ridiculous amounts of money, time, and effort to get to where they are. Two of them instructed for 3 years before they got on with the regionals. One of them is less than a year away from captain upgrade on the CRJ.

I asked the first one why he no longer likes the job and he told me, "Well, it's not that I hate the job, it's actually pretty fun and i never feel like i'm going to work, but my girlfriend said she can't have a relationship with a guy that's away from home 3-4 days a week." Uhm, what?

The second one said he can make more going into business working a desk. And you didn't know this before the $35k and 3 years instructing?

The third one said he's just plain bored. *shrug*

Someone enlighten me. I know the airlines aren't glamorous. I know the pay isn't a Fortune 500 CEO salary. I know i'm broke now and I will be for several years into my flying career. But what gives? With any job you have to make sacrifices. I am just constantly being suprised by people up and leaving the industry altogether.

thoughts?

g

 

[spudskier]

From what I've seen it's important to make sure that aviation, while wonderful and a dream of most of us, is not the ONLY thing in your life. I learned this from my previous career, got completely burned out but it was fun while I was doing it and before I did it!

A lot of professional pilots I know that have been in the industry for decades all have other interests. Families, side businesses, organizations, volunteering. Make sure you've got at least three main places in your life... your home/family, your career, and something else be it teaching, volunteering, side business, etc...

Diversify, Diversify, Diversify!

 

[Piper877]

From what I've seen it's important to make sure that aviation, while wonderful and a dream of most of us, is not the ONLY thing in your life. I learned this from my previous career, got completely burned out but it was fun while I was doing it and before I did it!

A lot of professional pilots I know that have been in the industry for decades all have other interests. Families, side businesses, organizations, volunteering. Make sure you've got at least three main places in your life... your home/family, your career, and something else be it teaching, volunteering, side business, etc...

Diversify, Diversify, Diversify!

Well said.

Also I think it's extremely important that you do a job ANY job because you enjoy it. Not because you think it will get you women, money, prestige or whatever. And as we all know being a pilot will probably not get you any of those although there are several out there that still think it will.
Combined with doing other things in your life, this can keep you fresh and enjoying your work each and every day.
The guy who said he can make more working a desk is almost certainly right. I did that for seven years in between college and my last job. What I found out during that time is that all the money in the world won't make a difference if you're constantly looking up and driving by airports wishing you were on the other side of the fence. All you can do is wish them luck and hope that if they aren't happy in a couple years that they can get back in to the industry if that's what they desire.

 

[FN FAL]

I am just constantly being surprised by people up and leaving the industry altogether.

I know people that quit right after they got out of UND.

Their dad kept telling me that UND had a secret society of people making sure UND kids got all the good jobs and how they place their graduates directly in the regionals. He also always told me that his kids were going to be driving past my place with their Maserati sports cars, blowing the horn and waving the finger at me. Nope...never happened. Neither one of them has flown a plane since UND. Which is kind of sad, since their grandpa, the United pilot paid for it all.

 

[Cardinal]

What part of his statement do you take to task? Frankly, it was the first thing I thought when I read the first post. Let's see - three guys who don't have the "hot burning desire" anymore are going to bail, leaving jobs at better airlines available for me, you, and Metro. They go off to and pursue their suburban life with the wife and BMW. Who loses? Nobody. Unless you actually think that aviation is the Shangrila and the only route to true happiness, why would you coerce someone into staying?

We've got one guy who's already terribly bitter after only two years making great progress at a regional. He was about to chuck it all and quit until some friend (who I'd like to strangle) convinced him to "tough it out" a little while longer. Great. We've got a sour, bitter, junior CA still here. Said guy might actually get hired at a better airline after his perseverance, at which point he will become an identical sour, bitter, junior FO. Whose interests does this serve? Please enlighten us, O wise one.

 

[mcjohn]

Wow. I can honestly say that's the first post you've made Metro that doesn't make me think you were beat up too many times as a kid.....I agree.

Step back a second folks. Look at the big picture. Someone goes into debt 80-120g's and then complains that the job isn't what they thought it would be. SJS comes back to bitch slap them in the face and they realize that this isn't really about flying at all. They feel that flying is keeping them from that greener grass in life.

All I can say? You should thought long and hard before you got all those loans.....and maybe have read my thread in the training section:
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=78943

 

[gkrangers]

Theres a difference between wanting to see more jobs available, and the willingness to undercut others to get those jobs.

The first (like this thread), is fine.

The latter (where the bitterness from a couple posters may come from) is not.

 

[mcjohn]

Ummm...I don't really see where the "undercut" thing is coming from.

 

[gkrangers]

Ummm...I don't really see where the "undercut" thing is coming from.

I think people (dumb people) associate wanting people to quit to create opportunities for themselves with all the evils of underutting.

 

[wrxpilot]

Theres a difference between wanting to see more jobs available, and the willingness to undercut others to get those jobs.

The first (like this thread), is fine.

The latter (where the bitterness from a couple posters comes from) is not.

I agree gkrangers, and it's true for any profession. If you don't like it, get out!! Why would anybody stick w/ something they don't like? Some get trapped when they start a family or get into a lot of debt. Unfortunate, but it happens. But if you're not stuck, why stay? I work one of those magnificient engineering jobs. I hate it and can't wait to be in aviation. I hope those other guys realize their suburban dreams. But if you truly love aviation, being stuck in an office is tough.

 

[mcjohn]

Well, I've been saying for quite a while now that the industry by default (whether we like it or not) is weeding out the ones who don't really have a burning desire to fly for a living. Does that make me dumb?

Since when, in the post 9/11 industry, do pilots think flying is going to make them filthy rich and home all the time. I think people were figuring this out before 9/11. Metro's post was a little harsh, but so is spending 100g on something you're not really dedicated to.

As a matter of fact, it blows my freaking mind that people spend that kind of cash to become "an airline pilot." That is just one niche of aviation and a somewhat depressing one at that sometimes.

You really want to fly? But it has to be for an airline? And you have to spend what to get there?! and DO WHAT to get there?! ("you" being in general here of course)

IMHO, that's plain retarded.

 

[gkrangers]

Well, I've been saying for quite a while now that the industry by default (whether we like it or not) is weeding out the ones who don't really have a burning desire to fly for a living. Does that make me dumb?

Since when, in the post 9/11 industry, do pilots think flying is going to make them filthy rich and home all the time. I think people were figuring this out before 9/11. Metro's post was a little harsh, but so is spending 100g on something you're not really dedicated to.

As a matter of fact, it blows my freaking mind that people spend that kind of cash to become "an airline pilot." That is just one niche of aviation and a somewhat depressing one at that sometimes.

You really want to fly? But it has to be for an airline? And you have to spend what to get there?! and DO WHAT to get there?! ("you" being in general here of course)

IMHO, that's plain retarded.

I don't care what I fly, just picking the best pay/QOL available to me.

Edit: No it doesn't amke you dumb at all, I wasn't saying that. I was just saying that people who get mad at people for encouraging, or being glad about people quitting are stupid.

It doesn't hurt anyone. Opens up a job for someone who wants it more. Its attrition.

 

[mcjohn]

Hmmm...maybe I'm the tard. I care what I fly. At least right now. May change in a few years. I don't know.

 

[gkrangers]

Hmmm...maybe I'm the tard. I care what I fly. At least right now. May change in a few years. I don't know.

Well you said it should be all about a love to fly, and not just for a specific airline or a specific type of aircraft.

If you can be happy with any type of flying, thats a big plus, and will probably help you achieve a more rewarding career.

I love flying...if you paid me the most and gave me the most days off to fly a 172 around, thats what I would do...

Of course I have my preferences, but would be happy with many different things.

 

[mcjohn]

Old planes. I like old planes. I'm pretty sick of the 172 though. I'd take a 152 over a 172 any day. I like machines more than I do computers. I like conventional gear over non-conventional gear. I'd like to make a billion dollars flying a 170 on floats or a cub on skiis or something. Hell yeah. I'm all excited now. Must post this link:
http://cubdriver749er.com/gallery.html

 

[gkrangers]

I haven't flown anything interesting.

Warrior, 172, Duchess.

I really want to fly a taildragger. My instructor owns an L3, http://home.att.net/~jm.price/nc49152pix.htm , and I'm sure it would be a blast to fly. Atleast a breath of fresh air, literally.

 

[mcjohn]

Do it. You won't regret one penny spent! It'll be more like a glass of ice cold water thrown in your face. Good pilots with no TW experience tend to be humbled beyond belief when trying to transition to TW. It becomes easy after 15-20 hours but getting there (for me) has been the most eye opening experience I've had in aviation so far. And those planes are so freakin beautiful! Going back to tricycle gear becomes a bore.

I had the displeasure of flying an SR-22 recently. That vibrating plastic piece of sh*t was hardly a real airplane. It was fun only due to it HP. Nothing else.

Good night. Nice chatting with you.

 

[gkrangers]

Nite. Unfortunately, the L3 doesn't have brakes in one of the seats, so he won't instruct in it. Woulda been a nice cheap way to a tailwheel endorsement...but I'm sure he'd still take me up in it, for fun.

 

[spudskier]

Old planes. I like old planes. I'm pretty sick of the 172 though. I'd take a 152 over a 172 any day. I like machines more than I do computers. I like conventional gear over non-conventional gear. I'd like to make a billion dollars flying a 170 on floats or a cub on skiis or something. Hell yeah. I'm all excited now. Must post this link:
http://cubdriver749er.com/gallery.html

Gorgeous pics ... I would kill for experiences like that

 

[Salukipilot4590]

I asked the first one why he no longer likes the job and he told me, "Well, it's not that I hate the job, it's actually pretty fun and i never feel like i'm going to work, but my girlfriend said she can't have a relationship with a guy that's away from home 3-4 days a week." Uhm, what?

Umm, wow... Honestly since he isnt married I would strongly advise that he try single life for a while. What would posess someone to throw away a 'fun' and enjoyable career just because some chick he has been dating for a couple months cries foul? I dont get it!

Meh, about the other two guys...I do feel for them because they basically threw away X number of dollars but in the mean time....leave. There are some of us who really do love the job and have an idea what to expect.

Hope none of that was insulting to anyone!

 

[FN FAL]

Umm, wow... Honestly since he isnt married I would strongly advise that he try single life for a while. What would posess someone to throw away a 'fun' and enjoyable career just because some chick he has been dating for a couple months cries foul? I dont get it!

When me and the wife were on our death march (five mile fitness hike) today, I told her about this guy that quit because of the chick, she said that guy was wuss. But she really said the slang name for a cat, which I cant say here because it has the p word and the ussy word compilation. Come to think of it, I can't remember if my wife said the chick was a wuss or the dude was a wuss, but then again, we saw lesbian chicks on Harleys today so I'm a little confused.

 

[gkrangers]

When me and the wife were on our death march (five mile fitness hike) today, I told her about this guy that quit because of the chick, she said that guy was wuss. But she really said the slang name for a cat, which I cant say here because it has the p word and the ussy word compilation. Come to think of it, I can't remember if my wife said the chick was a wuss or the dude was a wuss, but then again, we saw lesbian chicks on Harleys today so I'm a little confused.

The fact that your wife said the p + ussy word threw you for a loop. You shouldn't fly in your condition....

 

[Occam's Razor]

Last week three of my friends that are at three different regionals all told me they are ready to get out of the flying business. One is at SkyWest, one Air Wisconsin, and one at Horizon. Just like most of us, they all three spent ridiculous amounts of money, time, and effort to get to where they are.

Predicted happiness. Happens all the time. We see a hot car, or a cool airplane, or a gorgeous babe...and we predict what it would be like to have it. We picture ourselves with it, and build an emotional expectation based on the sensation of happiness.

If the sensation doesn't meet the prediction, we experience an emotional let down. The "anti-climax" of achieving the goal. (And to be successful as aspiring pilots, we have to be goal-oriented. It's one of the things that all of us as pilots have in common)

If the let down is persistent, we either lose focus, sublimate the sensation (hobbies, other diversions) or get depressed.

We have several pilots at our airline who experienced an externally-induced onset of this condition. It was caused by 9/11 and/or the bankruptcy. Both of those "external" events (meaning they weren't caused by the pilots themselves through an unrealistic expectation) dramatically changed the way the pilots percieved themselves and their profession.

For most of us, part of the cache of the profession is that it is not common. There are more lawyers in Manhattan than there are professional pilots in the US. These three guys spent the time and money to achieve something unique. Maybe they ascribed too much happiness to the achievement of that expensive and time-consuming goal.

I asked the first one why he no longer likes the job and he told me, "Well, it's not that I hate the job, it's actually pretty fun and i never feel like i'm going to work, but my girlfriend said she can't have a relationship with a guy that's away from home 3-4 days a week." Uhm, what?

Tilt!

Time for a new squeeze. That Klingon princess has predicted happiness with a non-pilot. Good for her! I know a lot of "house boys" who'd dig doing Quarterly Reports for Acme Widgets in a comfy cubicle so that they'd be home every night at 5pm for Her Serene Highness.

Right now there are thousands of heroic women waiting for their warriors who are overseas on our behalf. This gal needs to get some perspective.

The second one said he can make more going into business working a desk. And you didn't know this before the $35k and 3 years instructing?

I bet he can! Good for him. I hope he digs "casual Fridays" and office politics. My desk jockey neighbors gather at my house a few times a month to hear stories about a job that is more interesting (even long Flint layovers!) than managing the "Franklin Account". "Really? You mean the radar couldn't see through the storms? Then how did you know you could land in St. Louis?"

The third one said he's just plain bored. *shrug*

And he wouldn't be bored cold-calling potential clients? Riiiiight!

I suppose there are porn stars that are bored with their jobs. Cops that envisoned something more exciting. FAIPs who predicted themselves intercepting MiGs over Baghdad instead of intercepting radials over Enid. If you can't keep yourself focused and entertained driving an airplane, then you owe it to yourself to find another job.

Someone enlighten me. I know the airlines aren't glamorous. I know the pay isn't a Fortune 500 CEO salary. I know i'm broke now and I will be for several years into my flying career. But what gives? With any job you have to make sacrifices. I am just constantly being suprised by people up and leaving the industry altogether.

thoughts?

Find a job you love to do. If you don't love flying, don't do it.

Instead of "Take Your Kid To Work Day", maybe we need to start a "Take A Dreamer To Real Work Day". Spend a day over someone else's septic tank and you'll learn why their grass is greener.

 

[mcjohn]

My wife says that all the time. No further comment. Now I'm all excited again.

 

[TrafficInSight]

Well said, OR. The people who get bored with aviation are the people that made the mad dash for the right seat, got hired at 1000/100 or even earlier, and proceeded to never fly outside of work. That would bore the hell out of me too.

I don't think people like Robin Reid or John Deakin are bored in the slightest.
Get out, DO SOMETHING.

 

[njcapt]

What do I have to learn, junior? I feel the same way. I'm not exactly happy looking for my sixth airline job in the past fourteen years, but I take it in stride and am a reasonably content employee wherever I'm working. I don't need to sit next to some whining, grass-is-greener pain in the a$$ for a whole trip. If they aren't happy doing what they're doing, I say get out of the industry and do something fulfilling.

 

[Goose Egg]

Their dad kept telling me that UND had a secret society of people making sure UND kids got all the good jobs and how they place their graduates directly in the regionals.

From what I can tell, you don't need a secret society to get a job at a regional. You need is 1000-100 and a pulse.

-Goose

 

[FN FAL]

From what I can tell, you don't need a secret society to get a job at a regional. You need is 1000-100 and a pulse.

-Goose

1000-100 sounds like an easy day or two turning circuits around the aerodrome. These two guys got home from UND and saw the post 9/11 writing on the wall and chose another endeavor. Either they were smart or lazy? It's not for me to say.

 

[LoneStar123]

Tell them to go work on air conditioners on the top of buildings in Texas for a summer.....then ask if being a pilot is all that bad

 

[AngelKing]

Maybe it is not the current situation that has them quitting, but the grim prospects of it ever getting any better. People are willing to spend great sums if there is a payback seen in the end, but in aviation, unless you are hired by UPS, Fedex, there just isn't that huge payoff any longer.

And I know, its not just about the money.


AK