Hurray for the 1108, The RIFed are back !

[skanza]

The Unions sole responsibility is to negotiate a contract for a specific group and protect the intersets and rights of such group.
The people you claim to do the above jobs were paid to do such. Whats your point?
As far as them having more responsibility? Again-you like to feel you are important..Keep pushing that paperwork...When you make a mistake the feds just say "No" do it over.. Pilots ofetn do not get that second ,third or fourth chance. Responsibility from the top down...This board is filled with stories of how irresponsible the top down have been in everything that they have done. The bottom line is the pilot! The passenger could care less how many manuals you have written so pilots could follow them. Or the mechanic that works on them. The passenger-Mr Moneybags-cares about the pilot-being rested qualified and knowledgeable to know when not to fly tired, hungry, pissed off, or just plain old mechanical junk--CND....

I think the passengers may actually care who the mechanic is that works on thier plane. The pilot has no control over whether the mechanic used the right bolts or correct torque for that which holds the engine on the airplane. Right?

 

[brokeflyer]

Legacy pilots sucked the carriers dry right before they put all of them into bankruptcy and now consolidation. There are lots of pilots now that would have chosen smaller paychecks and stability long before the big paychecks they used to have.

I've always said, when times are good, unions are wonderful, but the true measure of a union is when times are bad.

When the ecomomy slips and the company needs some of that money back, we'll see how that nice paycheck holds up. The bigger the paycheck is during the good times, means the deeper the cuts are during bad times because the company can't afford a "good times" CBA during bad times. Let's see how the job stability and seat protection holds up.

Fracs aren't immune, it's only a matter of time before they cycle around.

can i come work for you then?....please?

 

[993_Pilot]

Help me here.. how does more pay and defined rest rules change the long list you have here? . . .

Most airlines never have more than a few years of profits before they are filing for bankruptcy again. The Non-Union 121 carriers often just plain go out of business, and their track record isn't any better, and probably worse than the unionized legacy carriers, even though their costs are less. Any business should know what its costs are, and price their product or service accordingly. When they don't, they are bound to lose their A$$. And that is exactly what the airlines do, They generally price their service less than their costs. They know what they are paying for labor, maint. overhead, etc. and they know the cost of fuel on the day they sell the ticket. They may not know exactly how many seats they will sell, but historical data allows them to forecast with pretty good accuracy. Yet they still choose to sell most seats at below cost and rely on a few premium fares to provide their margin. I would defend their right to do this in a free market economy, but when it doesn't work consistently, don't come crying to me about how it is the unions fault.

 

[brokeflyer]

dude where have you been?

its the union's fault....lol

amazing how there are a lotta airlines and fracs and 135 operators that dont have a union and they are doing so well.....the pilots are so happy to be butt fcked.....amazing....

the unions fault though.

i can't believe ive been so blind and accpepted the package my union gave me. I really wish i was making 24,000 / year to fly the G200 with no food and $hitty equipment and a GREAT 8 on 2 off schedule.....all with a stellar retirement plan that i make myself with the local bank and their savings account. Not to mention the GREAT medical i get for $500 per month.

Fckin union sucks.....

 

[Galaxy]

I think the passengers may actually care who the mechanic is that works on thier plane. The pilot has no control over whether the mechanic used the right bolts or correct torque for that which holds the engine on the airplane. Right?

True the pilot has no control over this type of issue. The mechanic and IA both have certificates on the line and the NTSB will find anything in an investigation.
Hence:
Title:Oklahoma Aircraft Mechanic and Aircraft Parts Broker Sentenced for Falsification of Records in Connection with Improper Aircraft Engine OverhaulsDate:September 28, 2007Type:InvestigationSummary:On September 28, 2007, Larry G. Good and Robert E. Parker were sentenced in U.S. District Court, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Larry Good was sentenced to serve 14 months of incarceration and 12 months probation, as well as ordered to pay $306,990 in restitution. Mr. Parker was sentenced to serve 72 months of incarceration and 36 months of probation, as well as ordered to pay $378,633 in restitution. The investigation revealed that Mr. Good, a certified aircraft mechanic, along with Mr. Parker, a self-employed aircraft parts broker, falsified entries in aircraft logbooks in connection with the overhaul of aircraft engines. They were aware the engines were not overhauled properly, contained replacement parts that were marked "not airworthy," or were simply unsafe for use on an aircraft.

So, just like a pilot these folks have something to lose as well. The pilots just pay with their lives at times. Oh yea then the family's civil lawsuits against said individuals. Yea it is worth it....
I have never-ever had a pax ask about a mechanic. They know and TRUST that I as the pilot will not put my certificate or safety on the line so they can get from A to B. It is just a long line of responsibilty...and the pilot is the LAST line of defense for safety.

 

[EX_CV580FR8Dawg]

True the pilot has no control over this type of issue. The mechanic and IA both have certificates on the line and the NTSB will find anything in an investigation.
Hence:
Title:Oklahoma Aircraft Mechanic and Aircraft Parts Broker Sentenced for Falsification of Records in Connection with Improper Aircraft Engine OverhaulsDate:September 28, 2007Type:InvestigationSummary:On September 28, 2007, Larry G. Good and Robert E. Parker were sentenced in U.S. District Court, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Larry Good was sentenced to serve 14 months of incarceration and 12 months probation, as well as ordered to pay $306,990 in restitution. Mr. Parker was sentenced to serve 72 months of incarceration and 36 months of probation, as well as ordered to pay $378,633 in restitution. The investigation revealed that Mr. Good, a certified aircraft mechanic, along with Mr. Parker, a self-employed aircraft parts broker, falsified entries in aircraft logbooks in connection with the overhaul of aircraft engines. They were aware the engines were not overhauled properly, contained replacement parts that were marked "not airworthy," or were simply unsafe for use on an aircraft.

So, just like a pilot these folks have something to lose as well. The pilots just pay with their lives at times. Oh yea then the family's civil lawsuits against said individuals. Yea it is worth it....
I have never-ever had a pax ask about a mechanic. They know and TRUST that I as the pilot will not put my certificate or safety on the line so they can get from A to B. It is just a long line of responsibilty...and the pilot is the LAST line of defense for safety.

Very well said guys!

 

[993_Pilot]

...One thing I do know, is that on this board NOTHING has been said about the 128 unless it's been prompted. Lots of chest beating to show how wonderful 1108 is regarding the 70, but not a single moral or ethical statement regarding the coworkers caught up in the same mass firing unless prompted...

Well, Duhhh! We all feel bad for everyone that was RIFed, but the 1108 represents the 70 PILOTS only. Get a clue would you? It is too bad that they don't have representation, but I guess they can all individually talk to management if they want to. I for one am glad that I do have representation, and that is why I started this thread.

 

[B19 Flyer]

True the pilot has no control over this type of issue. The mechanic and IA both have certificates on the line and the NTSB will find anything in an investigation.
Hence:
Title:Oklahoma Aircraft Mechanic and Aircraft Parts Broker Sentenced for Falsification of Records in Connection with Improper Aircraft Engine OverhaulsDate:September 28, 2007Type:InvestigationSummary:On September 28, 2007, Larry G. Good and Robert E. Parker were sentenced in U.S. District Court, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Larry Good was sentenced to serve 14 months of incarceration and 12 months probation, as well as ordered to pay $306,990 in restitution. Mr. Parker was sentenced to serve 72 months of incarceration and 36 months of probation, as well as ordered to pay $378,633 in restitution. The investigation revealed that Mr. Good, a certified aircraft mechanic, along with Mr. Parker, a self-employed aircraft parts broker, falsified entries in aircraft logbooks in connection with the overhaul of aircraft engines. They were aware the engines were not overhauled properly, contained replacement parts that were marked "not airworthy," or were simply unsafe for use on an aircraft.

So, just like a pilot these folks have something to lose as well. The pilots just pay with their lives at times. Oh yea then the family's civil lawsuits against said individuals. Yea it is worth it....
I have never-ever had a pax ask about a mechanic. They know and TRUST that I as the pilot will not put my certificate or safety on the line so they can get from A to B. It is just a long line of responsibilty...and the pilot is the LAST line of defense for safety.

The pilot is the last line of defense in what he can control. He can't control the maintenance done on the airplane, the fuel put into the airplane, the reliability of the data provided for flight planning or any of the other myriad of items that are accomplished everyday that make an airplane fly. For those items, he must rely on the people around him, (those nasty non-union workers) as a result.. as I said earlier, the pilot is only the end user.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19 said a CEO contract a drop in the bucket....


United Airlines CEO Glenn Tilton received $39.7 million in 2006,
Incredibly, Tilton’s 2006 compensation exceeded the airline’s entire annual profit of $25 million reported
by United’s parent company UAL, Inc (UAL).


That's a big UPSIDE DOWN bucket.

You failed to mention that the "bucket" is around 5.5 billion in revenue a quarter (over 20 billion a year) with a pilot CBA grabbing over 6 billion of that revenue. (more than a complete quarter of all revenue went just to the pilot group in payroll and benefits)

Unlike the massive pilot collective bargaining agreement, Tilton's compensation was spread over several years via stock options and accepted by the board and stockholders of the company. Apparently the board felt the his talents were worth the investment and paid him market value.

By comparison to the 6 billion dollar pilot CBA, Tilton's compensation was indeed, a drop in the bucket.

 

[B19 Flyer]

It has been repeatedly demonstrated that FLOPS safety department has no teeth and it is the union's safety committee that has accomplished more for safety than management. Idiot.

Your first statement in the above quote affirms that the traveling public and aviators are better off that you lost your medical and are not in command or second in command of any aircraft. Did management have anything to do with how many survived on United 232? I said it before, the profession is better off without you......good riddance.

Your statements show the complete and utter ignorance you have of the industry and your best role is obviously that of a pilot, because you would fail in any larger or more responsible role where folks like me have been successful. You clearly don't understand the big picture.

Pilots are needed to fly airplanes, but are only as good as those around them.

You have chosen 232 as an example of brilliant flying, and that is a good thing.

UAL management had a huge role in the outcome of 232, but you ignored and failed to give credit for all the behind the scenes work of UAL flight control and the preparation of Sioux City responders when faced with the impending accident.

Hospitals and doctors were notified by UAL in advance and the responders had an opportunity to be proactive. There was tremendous teamwork on that accident that saved many lives and none of it should be downplayed as you have in your post.